The Unforeseen Nexus: Golden Girls Meets D&D

Andrew: 0:31

Welcome adventurers, to another episode of Legends, Loot, and Lore. Today, we are thrilled to have a very special guest joining us on our magical journey through the realms of Dungeons and Dragons. Please give a warm welcome to the seasoned Dungeon Master extraordinaire, James Bergold. With a wealth of experience in guiding countless D&D adventures, particularly with new players, James is a true master of storytelling and a fountain of wisdom for anyone curious about stepping into the captivating world of D&D. Whether you are a curious newcomer eager to embark on your very first campaign, or a seasoned player looking to enhance your DM skills, James has invaluable advice to offer. From character creation to weaving epic narratives, he'll share essential tips and tricks that are sure to ignite your imagination and set you on an unforgettable quest. Without further ado, let's roll initiative and dive into this exciting new episode of Legends, Loot, and Lore with the one and only James Bergold. James, welcome to the podcast.

James: 1:56

Thank you. Thank you so much, Andrew. I appreciate it Right off the bat. I have to give you credit for something. Oh, I don't want you to know this, but I want to tell you about it because, Andrew, you are the inspiration for one of the characters in my campaign. Specifically, you told me about your character and that I made kind of surrounding, that I made a tabaxi in your honor. That is in my campaign. That mystified my players to no end for the longest time. So I wanted you to know about that. I also wanted to give you proper credit. I will always give you credit for that character that I created because it's been a lot of fun. That's great. You know to kind of I mean, she's an NPC, but at the same time you know they didn't know what to make of her at first. That was kind of fun. It's like who is this tabaxi? What is going on with her? That's just fun, that's great. And you helped me with that. So I'm forever grateful for you because it's just been a blast playing that character.

Andrew: 3:04

Thank you. So for those who are listening who may not know what race a tabaxi is, it is a feline race within Dungeons and Dragons. I originally created a blind tabaxi monk named Draufganger, which is German for daredevil, because I fashioned the character after the comic book hero Matt Murdock daredevil. So that was my inspiration for that character and I loved it was such a fun character. I still I literally still have the little mini figure on my desk right in front of me here from that character because it's probably one of my absolute favorites that I have played over the years. So thank you, that's really nice of you to say they're fun characters to play.

James: 3:58

They really are, and I mean that's one of the things I think when we talk to. You know you're right, I do. I love beginning players and I've had nothing but good experiences with a lot of first time players and, funny enough, my own brother and my daughter are two of them and on two different occasions I got to play like it was Christmas time and like my, my nephew had asked me all about Dungeons and Dragons. He's like Uncle James, you've DM for a long time and like can you tell me how I can get out of this Because my character got mind controlled, or something like that.

Andrew: 4:36

Like he's all sort of excited.

James: 4:38

He's like Mom told me, Mom told me you play Dungeons and Dragons, and he just thought it was the coolest thing. So I'm like the cool uncle, right that's awesome. I love that, but playing with my brother, because my brother was little when I was playing, you know, when I first played in high school, so he was always curious about it, but we never played and I always thought it was funny. In you know, he's a guitar player and he wanted to play a musician, he wanted to play a bard, so that's and that, I think, is a yeah, it's a big thing. He loved it because then he then he learned about vicious mockery, which is a spell for bards oh, you guys listening, and it's just like literally insulting and it's perfect for him.

Andrew: 5:19

I insults that really, truly an inflict. Yes, they say sticks and stones, but right, right but vicious mockery, will definitely hurt as well.

James: 5:27

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Andrew: 5:30

That's great.

James: 5:32

You know, it's really. I think the really fun thing when you have a new player is like people. People are hesitant, Like you and I have talked about this like what are their? You know, what are their hesitations for? For starting to play and everything. A lot of times people are like, wow, there's so much stuff and there's some. Yeah, I, I say there's a pencil, a piece of paper and maybe some dice. But dice can become an addiction. Just be warned.

Andrew: 5:59

That's, you know, I, I, I, I suffer from that issue.

James: 6:02

I do, I'm a, I'm a. I'm a raging dice goblin, if ever there was one.

Andrew: 6:06

Yeah.

James: 6:07

There's, there's, way, way, yeah, too too many dice to count.

Andrew: 6:12

I know we're, we're, we're going to a Comic-Con this weekend and I've got to behave myself. I've, I've, I've already scoped out the vendor list and I, I, I see the dice vendor and I'm like, ooh, Like oh, that's going to be a problem.

James: 6:25

Yeah, that's right, I could have some real difficulties. Absolutely, I better run past these guys, oh for sure, yeah, and that that's you know.

Andrew: 6:36

Um but really we, we we've talked about this on on the podcast before how, how simple it really is to to get into the like there's. You can you can certainly overcomplicate it, but but it really is a very simple and easy kind of game to get into. There there's, there's a low barrier of entry, at least cost wise, but but it's it's kind of figure it out as you go along. I mean, there's that's. That's why it's great starting out as as a level one character, because you, you don't, if you're a spellcaster, you don't have a ton of spells to remember, yep, um, you don't have a lot of features or things. So you, so, as your character levels up throughout the game, you, you gain that experience as well. So I think it's it's really ideal for somebody who wants to get into it, kind of not not really knowing what's what's going on, and especially if you have a a great DM, like like yourself, to help, help, guide them, guide them down that, that path.

James: 7:38

Yeah, it's, it's, I think it's. You know, I was thinking about this when you, when you asked me the question of like what, what's a good, what's a good thing for for new players to, to learn, I'm like, bring, bring your imagination. It's this. It's the simplest, most truthful thing I could probably say is like, you know, do you, do you like stories? Do you want to tell a story? Do you want to help tell a story? Cause.

Andrew: 8:06

I was looking at it. You want to be part of the story, you know.

James: 8:09

Yeah, do you want to? What? Yeah, what part of the story can, can you be? And it? And it's fun to see, like you're saying, when you start out as first level player. Like all my players, they started out as first first level in this, this group. I, I have and and three of the players were brand new players, and it was only that I was talking to the two more experienced players and they're like oh, we would love to learn how to play. I've always wanted to play. That Right, and so, whatever barrier was there, either they didn't have people to play with or or what have you that that you know like. It's like oh, absolutely, you can play, everybody can play. If you don't want to play, you can watch. How about you watch If you want to? If you don't want to play, if you're not ready to, okay, how about this? How about, like I've? I've approached it in many ways and I've let people that haven't played I've even offered them like hey, how about this? How about you be the? How about you be the voice of a character that's already in the story? You just want to try it out? You want to try it out for an evening and then we see if you want a character, like, if there's really a hesitation. That's what I think I always turn to is maybe you can lend your voice to the story at first. Right, like just, and, and all you have to do I'll tell you, I tell you who they are, and you put whatever spin on it and that becomes that becomes the part of the story.

Andrew: 9:33

That's, that's an interesting, an interesting way to kind of ease yourself into into the game Be be basically being an NPC and you get a guest star role.

James: 9:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like I uh, continuously offer and I think I think I've said I've hoped I've said this to you as well but like, I offer everybody like, look, you want to guest star, you want to play for a night? You don't, you don't have the time for the camp, come in and and and be a guest star one night. I'll let you be a villain, I'll let you be here, like whatever you want. I can put you in that story. And that's one of the great things about this game is it is simple when you think about it, but it can encompass such complexity because you're, you know you can get a pre-made world or you can, you can build your own, you know yeah, oh, for sure. I mean, you know, I, uh, I think, um, you know, people have asked me like, well, could you do a story on this? And it could be anything. So in fact, I am working on a campaign, like a series of one shots based on the golden girls.

Andrew: 10:45

I think that's so so, so. So give us, give us some, some insight into into what that, what that looks like. Okay, what, what have you worked on so far?

James: 10:55

Okay. So somebody had told me like the basic premise for the latest version of Dungeons and Dragons. They thought of what is the basic party? Okay, and it's a fighter, a magic user, a thief and a cleric or healer, right, right. So you have to have those, those four making up an ideal group. You can pretty much do anything with those four classes together. So they said basically that that Dungeons and Dragons five E party is based on the golden girls and each of the golden girls represents one of those classes. So you have Dorothy is B Arthur and she's she's the fighter, okay.

Andrew: 11:42

Okay.

James: 11:43

Okay, you have Betty White. She's, she's the cleric, she's the healer, she's the holier one right, and Ruben Clannaghan, who plays the Southern Blanche, blanche, blanche, thank you Such a blank. And she plays and it goes. It goes back and forth between she's either a bard or she's. She's a rogue, one of the she could be either one.

Andrew: 12:05

Right, can she multi classes as a, as a bard slash rogue?

James: 12:13

It could easily be, she could, she could fit into either of those, either of those classes, she could. And then you have you have Sophia, who's who's the magic user, she's the wizard, and I thought that I never knew that and I thought that was hilarious very interesting.

Andrew: 12:33

It doesn't have to be your traditional medieval kind of Dungeon, dungeon crawl. You know, we, we did a one-shot with Joe, our other host, and he it was a Christmas themed One shot when, when I think we were all we all had candy cane themed weapons. One one was like one shot, like hot chocolate. They were there, it was. It was like a whole random thing and and I think it was crampus that we were, that we were like trying to defeat he was the, he was the big bad of of that one shot, but it was, it was hysterical. So it, you're absolutely right, it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't have to be your traditional World, for for Dungeons and Dragons, you know, there's the, the framework that they have, that they have built out, can really be laid over any, any type of environment with any type of character. So I think that can definitely make it much more welcoming to to others who who are not necessarily comfortable with that, with that typical D&D environment that that you would, you would think of.

James: 13:46

Yeah, I mean it's funny that one shot is I. I created a side, a side adventure as Well. It was a Christmas themed thing, but I kind of they're like, oh, it's coming close to Christmas and you know, don't have a lot of time, I wonder. But I set up this whole side adventure and they started going down that path. But it best laid plans Don't ever they don't always go as planned, right.

Andrew: 14:12

Why I always say the job of the party is to thwart the DM's plans.

James: 14:19

It happens every time. It happens every time. And you know what the the most fun you have, you can't be as a DM. I will tell you like you got to go with that, absolutely. You gotta go with that because, gosh, it can be so much fun. Because it's like, okay, I, my nephew, came to me and and and he said, will you play with us? Like, will you play? I'm like absolutely hundred percent. And there was something in every room. And then he didn't believe me, like he said, oh, uncle James, you DM a lot, like you know. And he would tell his brother and my and my brother he's like Mm-hmm, he's gonna kill us because he's the DM and he's gonna just, he's gonna look to destroy us. And the funny thing is that is far from what I am as a DM. Like it can it happen? Yeah, but what's the fun of it's not me against you, right, us telling a story, right? And he searched an empty room, but he insisted he was, he was convinced that there was something in the room and While he's and I had him roll. I had him roll the search and he rolled a. He rolled a nat one.

Andrew: 15:29

Uh-huh.

James: 15:31

So basically the premise became he hit his head and went unconscious. He didn't know this, but he kept on searching the room and I basically turned the room into a giant blender and he was making a pina colada like stuffs kept on falling into the room.

Andrew: 15:45

And at the end.

James: 15:46

He's like, he's like, but, but my character is gonna die. And I'm like, is your character gonna die? Well, he could drown if I don't get out of it. And he managed to get out of it and and he goes. What do I see it? I'm like you see the bunk that you hit your head on and knock yourself unconscious and he stepped back and he goes. Uncle James, I'm gonna need a minute.

Andrew: 16:07

That's fantastic.

James: 16:10

But it was, it was out of the ordinary, right, it was not anything planned. You turn in room into a giant blender and and make a daiquiri. You know like Silly stuff happens and I think that's something that you know, it's something to know, but it's also something to embrace, because what you know, what, what's what's the worst, what's the worst, what's gonna happen. You letting everybody have fun. You're making, you know, you're making a safe, fun place for people just to express themselves and have and just have fun.

Andrew: 16:44

I think that I think that's what what people who have any, anyone who has not played Dnd or has not Seen just kind of a regular game of D&D being played, need to understand that it really is just a lot of fun. It can get. It can get silly at times, it can get. It can get very, very tense, you know, if you're, if you're, you're in a battle and and and your forces are dwindling, but but it's always, it's always a tremendous amount of fun and I always, I always come out of the back end of of a D&D session always just enjoying myself and there's, there's always so many stories that that you have to tell with your, with your party, you know, as time goes on, and it really is just a lot of, a lot of fun. It really it just oh.

James: 17:41

Oh, absolutely. I mean, if that's the you know, if you tell me the common, if I tell you the common things that I find is that, first of all, you make a table full of friends, you're having a blast, you're having fun, and it can be nonsensical, it can be serious, it can be really dramatic, it can be terrifying, you know, it's all of those things. It's like well, what kind of movies do you like? What kind of like? I ask players like what do you? What part of the story do you want to be? What is your story? And not everybody has the answer right away and I don't think you have to have it right away, especially starting at first level. You like One of the one of the great things I heard, even recently, is like, well, what's your character's job? And and the knee jerk reaction is to say, oh well, I'm a thief or undead, yeah, but what do they do? What do they do before they became a thief? Mm-hmm, like, were they a farmer, were they just a peasant, or whether they, you know, fallen royalty or royalty or whatever? Like what, what was their job? And I thought that was a really interesting approach because it's like you could be anything, you could have a background. You can make any character you wish and I was asked. Recently I started playing with a group that I hadn't played with because of coven, everything and and we, after two years, we started playing just recently, right, and one of the premises was they were, they were feeding me information about their characters because I let them start at a higher level. Mm-hmm and it's only because I played with them before, but I wanted them to have some more options in this campaign and whatnot. So the short answer was Because, as she said, she had Tattoos or markings on her arm that she couldn't explain. This is like a gift when players give you those things, when they give you those little pieces of backstory, that, and, and each one of them Gave me something that fit almost perfectly Into the campaign and that's the thing you look for. If that can happen, oh my gosh, it's like candy, that's it's, it's just delicious, and and. And you get great ideas, like if you think, oh well, I'm a new player and and maybe I don't have, like, I don't know what to do, like that's okay, what do you? What do you think you should do? What do you think you want to do? You know, I think those are important questions to know, like, hey, is this possible? Like, can I step back and ask you a question? Sure, absolutely, yes, I won't, I won't, I won't automatically turn. Assume that you're asking me that in the game, because you're learning how to play, right, right, and I think that having that environment and saying, is this possible? And I've seen some really creative you know creative solutions. I had it, I like, and I've seen look, I've seen dumb things happen. I remember an early dungeon that I was. I was early on in playing. I Played a dungeon with friends and and the guy who was the who was the magic user decided to throw a fireball, but he wasn't paying attention to the details and it turns out the dungeon was made of ice and we all died because he drowned us all. I Mean it's ridiculous. It's like I'm a wizard, I want to throw my fireball. You know that kind of thing I made.

Andrew: 21:11

I made a similar mistake. I was talking about this with somebody Earlier today. We were trapped in a library. We it was a multi-level building we were on this floor, it was a library and and there was a trapdoor that was locked that we could. We could not open there. There was some trick to opening it over and we couldn't get it open. But we were, we were being attacked in this library and and I, my, my, my rash Kind of quick reaction was there was, there was a bunch of enemies, and I'm like, I cast fireball and the DM said are you sure you want to do that? I said, yes, I want, I want to, I want to Take out as many of these enemies as as possible. So he, I cast fireball and and Resulted in lighting half of the library on fire because it's full of books and wood shelves and quickly, quickly, the room is filling with smoke as we're as we're trapped. So there, there are consequences to your actions, even even in D&D, for for sure.

James: 22:27

Oh, oh, absolutely, and, and, and you know what, not for anything. How much fun did you have.

Andrew: 22:33

I had a blast because then what then? We're? Then, then, all of a sudden, it's like, oh my god, we have to get out of here and that, and now you're trying to figure out how to get out of there. But I think you were, you were talking about something really interesting and I, I think it's a great point. Is is is Developing the, the backstory of your character, and this is this is where I Think it gets to be a lot of fun. So, as your, you know you, you get to make up the story of who this person is. You know, it's not, yeah, it has nothing to do with who you are as a person. You can, you can write it as, as anything you can. Again, you can, you could. You could be a commoner, who, who married a prince, and, and and now your royalty, or you could be. You know, I was in in one in one of our adventures. I Was, I played a harrigan, the, the rabbit race, but, but what it was was the. The background was, he was actually originally the rabbit of a magician in in a traveling circus and, and he was the rabbit that was always getting pulled out of the, the hat, and, and suddenly a bolt of magical lightning Hit the magician, and and the magician and the rabbit changed places. So so he was the the rabbit ended up becoming a sorcerer, so he had all the magic powers that the magician had, and now the magician Was a tiny little human. So so they changed places and now the rabbit was out, out, adventuring and and Running away from the magician who was trying to get, get his powers back. So he was the rabbit, was on the run and he joined up with this party and and was was always on the run in fear of being caught by the the magician. So that that was the backstory I wrote for one character. So it's, it could be, it could literally be anything. It's like you said you're only limited by your imagination.

James: 24:38

Yeah, and I think that's, I think that's it. I don't think that you know. So I played with this group and when and when my friend Dre have found out, I played Dungeons and Dragons, she's like oh my gosh, you have to play with us. I will be the DM. I'm like, no, I could, I could be him, if you want. Like that, no, I would love to DM and see what you come up with, what, and you know it's, it's. And Truthfully, I Hung back and I said, look, I, I want everybody to have a good time and I know I'm, I'm the most experienced player you have at your table, but I want everybody to have fun. I want them to let them go first. I Could, I could figure it out. I can be the tank. I can take all the damage I can take. I don't have to do anything weird or exciting or anything. Right, I am having a blast playing with you guys again and I'm, I'm all about that right and. And it was fun. But then you know, slowly I've been giving them my backstory for this character as we level up and I think I Don't. I think some people can hesitate to say, oh, I got caught with a story and how many pages, and I'm gonna write something and like, like, for some people it could be a stopper, right, and you don't want there to be any. You don't want there to be any stoppers, right? So I say I say it's okay, like hey, look, I'm the DM. You just tell me what the story is, even if you write it up a line at a time, even if you you know, but it's it. I think it becomes a positive thing if you were Writing that backstory with the DM who can give you like for all my players. What I did was I said, okay, what do you want to do? And I have somebody who wanted to be a shape shifter I'm like great. And their good friend happens to be a werewolf. The player, the player is a well, I'm sorry, one is a changeling and one is it. One is a shifter, one is a werewolf right and. But they know each other and he was in a different form. They walk in the bar and I'm like, where will there, is it? And I'm like, yeah, you know who this is because you smell him Right and just automatically like I'm thinking, dog, greater sense, greater nose receptors, the whole thing. You know, like I played it off. That way is like you automatically know this is. You know this is Joe right and and that's a lot of fun because it's like you know those reveals after a while they can be a lot of fun because you go okay Over however many sessions you'd like. Okay, I slowly wrote my backstory because I'm learning how to play and I think that's perfect. Because then, as you reveal it, like I had a player that I told him and said like I'd like to be part of that, a Secret order that protects people. I'm like it, perfect, I have one of those.

Andrew: 27:48

I'm like you're just so happen to have one of those.

James: 27:51

I just so. But I did and and, and that's the funny thing, like my players have gifted me and Incredibly like I come up with these ideas and I'm like, yeah, maybe this will make it. Maybe then, like I have list on list in my phone of all of this, giving myself source material out of nowhere, and I just start writing and whatnot right. And so he's like, he said this, he goes. I'm kind of a protector and I said, okay, you are now a member of the silver talent and it's a secret society of protectors that that doesn't have boundaries, they don't have borders, they just they protect people in power so they can't be kidnapped or or you know, somebody can't imitate them, or or what have you like all all this stuff, right? So here are the players and now he's a he's the first time player, and here are the players and they come into this room, they go under the city and they're hiding because somebody's after them, and they come into this room and he automatically recognizes the symbol. I said what is your? You know, give me a perception, roll. And he rolls, and he rolls high. And I'm like, yeah, you realize that at the table, you see, on their hands, you see a ring and it's usually a ring a brooch or a dagger or the Hilton disorder, whatever that has this marking right. And it can look a little different, but they, they recognize it immediately. And so what does he do? But very smoothly, he takes his, he takes his sword, he puts on the table and he says I live to serve. And the rest of the players go. What? It's this shocking moment? And they're like what is going on?

Andrew: 29:40

That's great.

James: 29:41

And we've just got the greatest. Like you can see, he was just, he was just beaming because he's just like I know who these guys are and they're on my side, kind of thing, right, and they're like what, what the hell just happened, what, what happened? Right, and that's a fun thing that you can do. Even part of your back story is like the little secret that you share with the DM. That's, that's delicious. Oh yeah, you know, it's like you have this little thing and each of that, I gave each of them that opportunity Like what do you want this to be? What do you know? Where's this come from? Why is this way? And it can change. It can change throughout the game. It doesn't have to be a static thing and I think that's that's another wonderful things that there's nothing set in stone. The rule of cool always applies, you know, and that just that just makes it so much fun for everybody's life. Oh, I got this. Now you know what? I realized I can, I can do this. They would send me stuff. I'm like, okay, this is, this is where you come from them, because you know this is the place you come from, this is what's around you, and try to give them geography and Backstory to different things that you know. I'm like how does that? How do you think that fits in and everything and and it becomes Collaborative storytelling and that's that's. That's just that's why this game is Is so amazing and and just to start out, gosh, I'd love to be a newbie again. That's why I love. I love people. Who, who wanted, who want where it's like. I remember how fun that was right?

Andrew: 31:20

Uh-huh, uh-huh, so so, what do you? So, what do you? What do you say to the person that that comes up to you and says, hey, I'm interested in playing, yeah, d&d, you know I'm. I Know nothing about it. You know what's, what's your, what's your elevator pitch to to get them into the game. And and how do you? What are the so? So, how do you get them into the game? And let's say what? What are the? The three key pieces of information Somebody should have getting into walking into it. So we said there's very little barrier entry, there's very little set up to it, but what are the? So how do you get somebody into the game? And then what do you say? Like, what do you say here? These are if you had to give, maybe advice or say this is really the key things you need to know to play, and then just let them loose.

James: 32:31

I really enjoy. I think I get the most. I think it's satisfying, but I get the most reaction when I say when I ask people. I like to ask questions instead of saying, hey, you should do this, this is it. I like to ask some questions what's your favorite movie? What's your favorite book, right, what's your favorite TV show? Like, I want to know those favorite things because I don't want to know the person. But at the same time, what? Like literally one of my favorite questions is what was your favorite toy when you were growing up?

Andrew: 33:05

Well, that's a good question.

James: 33:07

Yeah, because it tells you something about the person. Like what? Because I love the fact that when people start talking about that, their eyes light up and they get genuinely excited.

Andrew: 33:19

So I will tell you my it wasn't a specific favorite toy. I was a big GI Joe fan. Oh, nice, nice and it was so funny. So my brother and I I mean I had I was probably more pro cobra, you know I always, I always loved the bad guys because they always had the cooler, cooler toys. They had like the cooler weapons and stuff. But this was back in the days of like, when, like, camcorders first came out and my brother and I were in the basement and we were like making movies with our GI Joe characters.

James: 34:03

I love it.

Andrew: 34:04

And it was I love. So that's like my first experience in telling stories and kind of role playing the different characters. But I was obsessed with GI Joe and the figures and the vehicles and the GI Joe base Like I had like the whole thing. It was crazy. So I was like obsessed and so that's like I loved watching the cartoon show. So like I like I love that whole concept and so that that's my, that's my favorite toy as a kid growing up, that's 11. I loved it Absolutely obsessed.

James: 34:47

I used to live up in Rhode Island and when you'd go into a Toys R Us in Rhode Island Rhode Island's the home of Hasbro, Is it really? Yeah, I was going to. I was going to college up in Rhode Island. I spent a year. I was going to go to Rhode Island School of Design and decided not to. But I was up there and it was my brother's birthday coming up and I love GI Joe, oh my gosh. But he was of the age of playing, really playing with it, and I was in college, Right, and I couldn't resist. And for his birthday I went hog wild and they had moved from Rhode Island to New Jersey.

Andrew: 35:26

Right.

James: 35:27

And I came in and I had boxes and everything wrapped up for him and I got him like all these figures, oh man, the big, the big black plane, and everything.

Andrew: 35:35

Oh, I remember that. Oh, my gosh yeah.

James: 35:39

This is like I think I got him the aircraft carrier for for Christmas, like. But here's the thing they don't know what nobody will tell you is it was probably the. It was probably the place to go was Rhode Island because Hasbro subsidized all the toys. The resident was so cheap to get GI Joe's at the time.

Andrew: 35:55

Oh man, that's why I got so much from him.

James: 35:57

Because I'm like, I'm a college student on a budget and I got to buy my little brother all the GI Joe stuff and I'm like you know this is awesome, that's great this is all something I would want you know. But yeah, love, love, love. I love that answer. Love the GI Joe's.

Andrew: 36:14

I would love a GI Joe themed D&D adventure.

James: 36:18

That would be like and that's the beautiful thing about it is do it, you can do it. Yeah, you can, you can. You know you can make snake eyes and you can make storm shout out and the whole. You know like you can make every character. It's entirely possible. And remind me sometime because I will share with you pictures I don't know. A friend of mine does GI Joe cosplay. Are you talking about Keith? Yes, oh, you know Keith. I know Keith. Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: 36:52

Yeah, I love him, I love his cosplay. He's amazing.

James: 36:56

I love it. I love it. I think you know I showed somebody like I showed him the. Gi Joe and the Tintin oh yeah. And I was like, oh my gosh, like he's just into it, he's, so he does the whole nine yards. It's impressive, yeah, it's amazing. So, but yeah, it's like, what's the what's the thing you want to, what's the thing you want to do, what's the adventure you want to have? Like, what is it? It doesn't have to be medieval high fantasy.

Andrew: 37:27

No, not at all.

James: 37:29

You know look, I think about I was up at the Renaissance festival one time in this whole club of Star Trek fans and they were a club and there was another club and they met them up there and they were they were a Klingon club and what they did was they pretended that they were in Star Trek and they caught in the holodeck and they had their whole adventure. Like they spent the day at the Renaissance festival in Star Trek costumes at the Renaissance festival.

Andrew: 37:56

That's amazing, that sounds, that's like strong, that's like straight out of, straight out of next generation.

James: 38:02

Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. But it's what is it? What is that? That's pretend.

Andrew: 38:08

Right Again. You're only limited by your imagination. Exactly, that's absolutely the truth.

James: 38:14

Yeah, I get that. That's, you know, Star Trek at the Renaissance festival, isn't? It's it, believe it or not, it's related and in the way that you're pretending you have your imagination, and it is a wide open landscape, because you can it's as simple as a pencil and paper. It's as complex as a, as a fully realized world, with political intrigue and and, and you know, you know, like when I started building my home group campaign, I wanted it to be approachable by any means, Approachable by anybody, but I put in some different things that my players don't know about and I won't. I won't say here during the interview no spoilers.

Andrew: 39:00

No spoilers.

James: 39:01

Yeah, I don't want any spoilers, because I told them all they should listen to you, like I told them all they should subscribe to your podcast.

Andrew: 39:08

Thank you.

James: 39:08

And yeah, and so they hear this like what's coming. No spoilers, that's right. You know just some of the premises that I've encountered over the over the years. Like I had newbie players go into a dungeon and they ran into a dragon. Like I let them go the way and they happen to find they found this thing. There is no way that the whole party would have been dead.

Andrew: 39:38

Right.

James: 39:39

But they knew they were, they had been in a fight, they had, they had tripped a few traps and everything. They kind of came upon a dragon but instead of fighting the dragon they talked to the dragon and they played chess with the dragon instead of fighting it.

Andrew: 39:59

It has flashbacks of Bill and Ted's bogus journey playing, playing battleship with the grim reaper. You sang my battleship.

James: 40:13

Yeah, I came up with roles and I said that here's how you do, but but they're like how you know and they expected, because he was like this old dragon, they they're like, so how long does it take him to beat me? And they just all assumed that they could not beat the dragon and chest, so they didn't play actual chess. I came up with a series of roles of how they did like performance roles, basically, you know, and the dragon had advantage, right, you know, and because it was his lair and he invited them and basically, and in the end he was so enamored with the cardius and you know, role charisma, checks and everything else, like that. In the end he's like here I'll let you take something from my hoard because you came and you kept me company and you talked to me and you amused me and we played chess and I'm and you made me very happy, so you may each have. And I granted them one. You know, I gave them a choice of like a few items, right, and they each took an item and it was a magical item and it wasn't anything game-changing or anything, but it was just Having that. Like I played a check, I played chess with a dragon and I won a sword, like how cool is that, you know?

Andrew: 41:21

I'm, I'm, I'm very similar sometimes because it's sometimes I try to find creative ways of solving a problem instead of instead of instead of being the murder hobo and just go going in with my sword and and attacking or whatever weapon I have and I Can't remember if I've talked about this before, but there was in one in our, in our most recent campaign. I was, I had, I had the, the, I had the invisibility spell and we we went into. We went into the courtyard of this castle and suddenly, about 2025, enemies came out to because we were making so much noise. They came out and To see what was going on, and there there was two separate groups. There was there was a group of cobalds and there was a group of cultists human cultists and what? What I did was I? I turned invisible. I, I ran into the center of the group of cultists and and shouted something. I shouted insults at the cobalds and so I had I think I had to roll perspiration. I had to roll some sort of ability check. Fortunately, I rolled high enough, so the cobalds thought that the cultists were insulting them, so the cobalds attacked the cultists and we as a party then ran in the opposite direction and Avoid it having to fight like 25 different people. Yeah, so it's just. It's again, it's just the creativity. It doesn't always have to be what what's expected. You know, and I and we I've talked a lot about that in in character creation you don't, you don't have to and Joe has talked about that as well you don't have to do what is necessarily Expected of of a race, of a class, etc. You don't. You don't have to to follow exactly what what's in the rules.

James: 43:31

No, you don't know, I mean not at all, but I think one of the one of the things that I can't stress enough, for, even you know, I have a, I have a player that played a lot of video games, and we talked about this, and yes. He's very much. I Want to finish the level right. I Got to hit every room. I got it. I'm like, well, did you draw a map? Like that kind of thing?

Andrew: 43:55

yes, I reveal a map, like you know it's.

James: 43:57

It's funny, because I'll ask them and they're like what? You Don't have them out. I'm like did you keep a map? Like? I'm just saying you know, like, but wait a minute. Usually you give us the map and I'm like this is theater. To remind my friend yes, there are times that I give you maps and times I don't.

Andrew: 44:12

And you gotta pull the hands on Greta and throw some breadcrumbs.

James: 44:16

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And and it's funny because they can they get confounded like what do it like? That's great. I, you know, I love, I Love making a setting that might appeal to one of my players like. I love to include that and I love to focus on I love to focus on the newest player, because I want them to have agency and I want them to be included. I want them to feel included right off the bat, because I've already asked the question like, what do you want this adventure to be? And I did that and one of my, one of my players, one of my players, her background was her, her she's a new player and her family she was a halfling and and she and she's a sorcerer. So she has, she has dragon blood within her, within her line, right, and that's how she comes about with her powers of sorcery interesting Okay so, but her job was, her family were tea merchants. Okay, so her, her story has been building and she has a tea set with her. You know, okay, and she would make tea, and so this setting that I created was essentially a Japanese meditation garden and and a tea house with rice, paper walls and everything. But to get into, to gain access, she needed the help of another player who was a monk To do all the meditation. She knew some of them, but he knew all of them, and so he taught the other players, like I do this. We did it through skill checks and everything, performance checks and whatnot. Right, and so they have to go along this little meditation route in this beautiful garden To get into the tea house. But because she knew tea, that gave her historical advantage in in different places, so she'd ask if she knew about something. Well, she's going into this tea house. Now, what they faced in the tea house was there were, there were cultists who were invisible, and there was a person Visiting this tea house who was the magister of a city. Only she figured it out. She figured out that this was actually. This person was actually a changeling, a doppelganger disguised, and they were practicing in order to gain entrance into the city and over through the city.

Andrew: 46:59

Oh wow, that's clever so she?

James: 47:06

she said, like Do I know her? Do? I said you know the ancient tea ceremonies of her people? Right, because that was her historical reference point. Right, because her family traded in tea. I said you know she comes from the city of Aranthus and she's the magister Aranthus. But something's a little off. She goes and she came up with it. She's like is she wearing her? Is she wearing her necklace that she would wear? Like no, she's not. And Then they attacked.

Andrew: 47:43

I love it because there were things that were that were out of place.

James: 47:47

Uh-huh and then all of a sudden the cultists start attacking them, become become visible, but then there's extra added layers. It's like, okay, I have a pretty powerful party, so I got it like I have to Challenge them, right, you know, I'm not looking at, you know out now, if the role happens and they die, okay, that happens, but it's not me out trying to torture them or kill them or anything else like that. And there were some serious skill checks. So they're searching and they're going and I have one player who decided. One player decided to stay in the tea house because he was the one that meditated and show he was that he was a harringham. He's the rabbit folk.

Andrew: 48:27

Okay.

James: 48:28

He's a rep monk and he knew, you know, this was. This was keyed for the both of them and and really I created it so they would have time to interact with each other and everybody else right. And the tea house. The actual outer walls of the tea house were giant mimics oh my god. They were giant horde mimics, so they are of they. They are the side of a building, like each of them was on one side of the nice.

Andrew: 48:58

That that's, that's. That's quite an animated Counter.

James: 49:03

Yeah, but here's, here's the thing.

Andrew: 49:06

Mm-hmm.

James: 49:07

I Placed those mimics on the outside of the building to look exactly like the building, right, but I did it, and I had it so that they would follow the meditation route, because I knew some players might go oh, let's just cut our way into this beautiful tea room right. So they came out of the tea room after the fight and you guys and one of the players was like I just cut through the wall to get back into the tea room and search the place I Like. Oh, you do. Okay roll to hit the building. Well, he wasn't rolling to hit the building, was rolling into the mimic that was disguised as the building right and. Then the fight ensued, because now they hit at this thing's huge and Then in doing it they woke up the other one. So if they didn't attack it, if they didn't, if they left alone, they would never have accounted right. But if they got lazy and they tried to cut their way into this building, then it was on do you?

Andrew: 50:04

do you give them the the big role for initiative?

James: 50:09

All the time, you know, and then I'll roll stuff and and there are things that I roll along the way and I go and I set the parameters for myself.

Andrew: 50:21

Right.

James: 50:22

I don't really it's. It's. It's funny. I have this one d20 that I that I've played with them and it rolls terribly. It should be in a dice jail forever at this point. That I have and I just pick up whatever die like is it for and I roll it and I and I don't do. I Don't want them to see my rolls on D&D beyond because I use D&D beyond. I've used roll 20 in that right and yes, I know I can, I can make that roll to myself, but I like I love dice, so I always have the die in front of me and that just helps me visually and everything's like okay. So yeah, I will absolutely say roll for initiative and I will say, if they're like you know, I want them to. You know the, the, the critical role, you know phrase of how do you want to do this?

Andrew: 51:18

Uh-huh.

James: 51:19

It's a beautiful thing, it's literally a beautiful phrase, because the excitement that it generates when she start using it is is palpable, like it's, like they're like oh my gosh, and I lit. And that is actually when somebody gets a critical hit, when they roll a 20 and that 20 and I want them to describe it.

Andrew: 51:44

Absolutely, and I find that people.

James: 51:46

You know people that. That, to me, is a way of getting people into role playing that might not role play.

Andrew: 51:53

Mm-hmm.

James: 51:54

Just describe it for me. What does it look like? Like you, you know, and somebody over like I have my battle axe and I Cleave its head and two or what, and it could be the simplest, straightforward thing, and sometimes they, and then they, they pick up on that and they just eat it up like candy and then all of a sudden it's like yeah, oh, yeah, I had my final blows, a spinning death kick and, like you know what a, whatever it might, you know whatever might it take.

Andrew: 52:21

I, it wasn't, it wasn't the final blow, but I was playing a Damper, a half half vampire, and we were. This happened just recently. We were, we were fighting a dragon and they have I think it's called vampiric bite. I can't remember what the what, the what the ability is, but you can fanged maybe fanged bite and you can. You can sink your fangs into something and Not not only does it inflict damage, but when you roll the damage die, you get back that, that same, that same amount. Yeah, and so I was like I'm like I jump on the on the neck of the dragon and sink my teeth into it and like drain it of its life force. And I think I had to like roll an athletics check to to like to actually like climb onto the back of the dragon and I'd like roll, like I think, two different ability checks to actually get on the back of the dragon first, before I could even Do that. It was just, it's just so much fun. And then, and then one of our, one of our other party members was able to to kill the dragon, and they that one of their things. They always like cutting off the heads of the enemies. They they keep the heads of the enemies as trophies, and so they were trying to cut off the head of the the dragon and I'm like, hang on, I'm still on its neck. I'm like Don't hit me. So I'm like I'm like I'm trying to get out of the way of them slicing off the head of the dragon, and it was. It was just they had a role to avoid hitting me as part of the activity, but it was so much fun. It's great when you can describe, when you, when you get the opportunity to describe all that and and really get get into Into the action.

James: 54:20

It's a lot of fun and I think even those, even those, even the simplest of descriptions, I think is is sort of the gateway or the key to More, more role-playing. Yeah right, absolutely, and and when people are having fun doing that, and I don't, yes, I don't, I don't discourage. If somebody's not ready for role-playing, there's no, there's no forcing anybody into it. That just makes it not fun.

Andrew: 54:46

Mm-hmm.

James: 54:47

You know and and I like, I like the idea of describing things as as the simplest of role-playing and, and it's funny, you Said they like cutting off the heads of things that have trophies and stuff. So I have a, I have a, I have a magic item for you, if that's okay.

Andrew: 55:05

Oh, I Love magic items.

James: 55:08

I came up with a magic item, and it's based on a bag of holding. Okay, mm-hmm, it is the bag of assembly.

Andrew: 55:17

The bag of assembly.

James: 55:18

Okay, yeah and what the bag of assembly does is when you have players that want to keep trophies, you throw in a bag of assembly instead of a bag of holding. Looks just like a bag of holding, can act just like a bag of holding all right but one of the play it's actually. It's actually a partially cursed item.

Andrew: 55:37

Okay so what?

James: 55:38

so what it really is is, is they it's a trophy bag, right, and you can, and you can, and you can just like, listen, does it like? This is a? This is a trophy bag, so it's a bag of holding, but just for, for trophies for monsters and stuff like that, right? Well, the player is compelled by the bag To collect a specific type of trophy Could be an arm, could be a hand, could be a head, could be a wing, could be a leg, foot, toes, whatever, whatever pieces right and, as the thing goes, what they're actually doing is they're actually assembling a monster.

Andrew: 56:19

I had a feeling that's where this was going, yeah.

James: 56:25

So they are like they get like you. Really, you are compelled like the trophy on this, on this monster, you want that arm. It's kind of like rocket raccoon always wanting appendages for people, right right right and and that that served as part of the part of the Inspiration for this. But I'd like, okay, well, what if you, what if the? What if there was like a, basically almost like a mimic bag, but the mimic needed more parts, but the, the bag, is actually the brain of the creature itself interesting and and once it has an entire body. So you just keep on track of what they have in the bag, right and the minute they assemble, anything like, oh, if there's a better item, the bag goes ooh, that's a better, I want that, I want that head, or why, I want that leg or that. And once you get to a place where it's, and, and guess what, the bag levels up just like they do. So the bag gets harder and harder to beat. Oh, my because it's constantly collecting things that it might admit you, just you know, and basically I set it up to roll like Does the bag attack Right and it becomes like a random encounter. Like is the bag? Does a bag feel complete? Like I keep a list of what they're, what they're Carrying in the bag and once they get to a full body, I'm like you know it's the bag greedy, do they know they're going after. Like you know, the bag can hear what they're doing. You know that kind of thing.

Andrew: 57:54

So it's a very just wait for a long rest when they, when they're all asleep.

James: 57:59

Exactly did you get your long rest? No, I'm sorry you don't have your spells back now. You got to fight the bag of assembly. That's right and that's great. Yeah, it's a vicious. It's a vicious item, but it's a fun item because, like people that you know, I have a player in one of my games. Who is? Who is a chaos? Gremlin.

Andrew: 58:18

Mm-hmm.

James: 58:19

And like one of those would be ideal for him. Because he, he came to me. We started playing again. He came to me he said, look, I got an idea for a character. I'm like okay, and I thought he was pulling it right out of Deadpool. He goes. No, I'm just this guy named Peter, I'm gonna be a bard, but I'm just gonna be a guy who plays guitar on the weekends for his friends and he's not very good he goes. He's good at talking to people, but every time he plays you kind of live, feel like you've been robbed, you know, like you didn't really get the performance, like that he was leading up to right and. And he's like describing the guy in Deadpool 2. That's just like the guy that shows up. Oh, sure, yeah and I said look, I'm gonna do you one better. I'll let you, I'll let you play that character. I and this is before we've even played one session I'll let you play the character. But you have to do this. You can be Peter, you can play him any way you want, but I'm going to destroy your character, I'm going to kill him. Because in order to be Peter, you have to have made a pact with a demon, elemental, whatever, it doesn't matter, packed with whatever. So you've made a pact with a fey and they basically took out an insurance policy out on you. So you have to die in a very public way. But the greatest thing is if somebody collects your ashes, you get reconstituted every day, but you get blown apart. You just die in some very public, awful way so that the fey can collect the insurance policy on you. And so the players meet him and they know he's a chaos gremlin, they know he is all about the chaos and they're like what are you doing? They're like don't be this character. And then, basically, they were all walking together and I said and a giant fireball hits you from above and the rest of the party? It does no damage to you. Actually, you feel pretty invigorated and I gave them like a blessing instead of blowing them, apart from the fireball, but it incinerated Peter Markey, the character.

Andrew: 1:00:28

Right.

James: 1:00:29

And then you just see a pillar of ash and he just crumbles to the ground. Now there's an investigation and stuff like that, the town constable, everything and they're like we're out of here. So they're gonna run into that character again and again, because it's just gonna be a running bit, because it's amazing.

Andrew: 1:00:48

I love that.

James: 1:00:50

He loves a good bit and he'll play to the bit Like no-.

Andrew: 1:00:54

That's amazing.

James: 1:00:55

He commits to the bit and it's just fun. But I mean that's the length and breadth and I make fun of the fact that you have first time players that are hesitant to like choose their class or race or what have you, and then you have an experienced player who's full of chaos, who wants to play a loaf of bread, that has become self aware. I mean it's absolutely absurd, it's ridiculous to the nth degree, but somehow you let everybody have their fun.

Andrew: 1:01:29

That's what it comes down to. So, yes, everybody absolutely should have their fun. So let's do this, let's. We're running out of time, so what would be your? So what are some parting words to the new people in? Let's say, you're assembling a new table of new players. What are your opening words of wisdom to this new group?

James: 1:02:06

What makes it fun for you Right there? What's the story we want to tell together? What makes it fun for you? I don't necessarily, unless somebody comes to me and says I want to play a bad guy. I don't, I kind of discouraged that right away. But I do give players the opportunity to play the other side of things. Like subconsciously or unconsciously, like all of a sudden, they figure out they're not the good guys. You know that kind of thing. So it's kind of like and the lesson of that is the words to give is that is like lean into what you're playing and have fun with it. Like really, really let yourself have fun, let yourself play. You know, and I go to this. I'm like I said this to somebody one time when I was teaching them and I said okay, and they wanted homework, right, so what's the homework I would give my players? I would say this thing it's okay to play and it's play what you want. Play the hero, play the you know, play the person you see in the movies, that's, in your favorite movie or the favorite hero in the book. Like is your life? Like you know? Is your character like theirs? Is that how you want them to be? Is that what you want? You know, like, hey, I want to be. You know, I want to be a fighter and be like Optimus Prime meets Yoda, meets Captain Kirk meets Han Solo. You know like why not? Why not? Okay, let's incorporate something. What are the things of those? Like you know, do you have to come to a table with an idea? No, that's what the table's all about. It's all about kind of coming together. And does everybody have to know your story? No, do you have to have the whole story? No, but hopefully, along the way, you're writing that story. So it's kind of like be open, you know, be open to your imagination.

Andrew: 1:04:21

I love that. Be open to your imagination. It really is. It's a. Your character in the game is really just a blank sheet of paper waiting for you to tell your own story. So James-. Absolutely Thank you. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. I love this chat, always good talking with you.

James: 1:04:44

My absolute pleasure.

Andrew: 1:04:45

Thank you, thank you so much. Stay safe.