Sign up to get updates from us
Ever imagined yourself as Aragorn, stealthily navigating through the wilderness, or perhaps as Jack Sparrow, notorious for his cunning charm? Well, step into the magical realm of Dungeons and Dragons, where you can become heroes straight out of your favorite tales. From righteous Paladins to wily Rogues, versatile Rangers, and unpredictable Sorcerers, this episode is your ultimate guide to mastering the various classes. We'll share personal anecdotes, discuss unique skills, powers, and moral dilemmas, and even reveal how your favorite pop culture characters inspire these roles.
Picture this - a heated debate between Toma, the half-orc Paladin, and M'Tens, the chaotic evil bugbear, about the fate of a sick stranger they've encountered. Will Toma's zeal to heal win or will M'Tens' distrust rule the roost? Prepare for a rollercoaster of emotions as we dive into the moral dilemmas faced by these characters. We'll also journey into the intricacies of each class, from the divine smite power of Paladins to the wilderness prowess of Rangers and the mischief of Rogues. Plus, we'll also reveal the ideal races, weapons, and spells that'll amp up your gameplay.
And if your heart sings at the mention of spells and magic, we've got you covered. From the enchanting world of Wizards to the concept of Wild Magic, we'll guide you through every enchanting twist and turn. Discover the incredible role-playing opportunities, the different schools of magic, and how spellcasters add a unique dynamic to any game. So, if you are looking for a treasure trove of D&D knowledge, tips, or just a good old magical adventure, you've struck gold with this episode.
1. Visit our website! www.legendslootandlore.com
2. Support the Podcast! Help us do what we love and bring you more great D&D content. legendslootandlore.supercast.com
3. Follow us on social!
Instagram
Facebook
TikTok
4. Join our Discord Server!
Music by June Westfield
Apple Music
Spotify
Logo design by Ryan Denora
https://www.ryandenora.com/
Welcome, weary travelers and curious minds, to another enchanting chapter of Legends, loot and Lore. Joe and I are your humble guides through realms both known and unknown. Hello, and it is our immense pleasure to have you join us today for a captivating exploration into the boundless world of Dungeons and Dragons. So gather round, stoke the fires of your imagination and prepare to embark on a journey that will stir your heart and ignite your spirit. Ready yourselves, for within these tales lie not only characters, but echoes of the choices we make, the alliances we forge and the destinies that beckon. As we embark upon this odyssey of imagination, may you find inspiration anew and a yearning to etch your own name into the annals of Legends Loot and Lore. As the dice are cast and fate unfurls its threads, let us embark together into a world of wonder and magic. Welcome one and all to this chapter of Legends, loot and Lore. I'm excited, andrew, are you? I am really excited. I really enjoyed our conversation on the first six classes. I've been really itching to talk about some of these. I mean, obviously I have expressed my love for the Monk and that class, but there are some really fun ones in here. I have yet to play a Paladin. I've done the Ranger. I've done Sorcerer and Wizard. I've done a lot of the Spellcasters, even tried my hand at a Rogue, which I wasn't a.
Joe:It didn't really click for me, but I think the adventure that you were playing that into wasn't exactly the most conducive for it Perhaps, but I'm a big fan of the Spellcasters.
Andrew:I love Like I think you were saying this that you really like the fact that they've got a variety of spells to cast, so it's not just that one-trick pony of Swinging a Sword or one-act, so you've got some variety to the gameplay there, which is really Helps it not get monotonous.
Joe:Unfortunately, sometimes when you're playing a Spellcaster, you end up picking your favorite spells and casting them over and over in any way Magic Messle.
Andrew:Yeah, exactly, you use that constantly constantly.
Joe:But the idea is it allows more variety because even though you can pick your favorite spells, you can do other things. And while you favored the Monk I don't know if it's just because it was the first character I played to a completion of a campaign I favored the Wizard. I've always kind of favored the Wizard class. When I made my first character, I made a Paladin and I enjoyed playing the Paladin. But I think it might be because I played it to the completion of the campaign the Wizard. It just resonates a little bit more with me and we'll talk about it when we get there. But it also might do with the fact that I think I've always liked the Wizard in general. Even before I understand more, understood a lot about D&D, the Wizard always appealed to me.
Andrew:It was funny. I was, so my first character that I played was a Wizard, Fi'ang. Now, for anyone listening to the podcast, there is another podcast that I'm a big fan of, what is called Hello from the Magic Tavern, and Fi'ang is actually a Wizard. One of the play, one of the characters on that show, is this Wizard named Fi'ang, so that's where I got the name. I kind of stole the name there because I was just such a big fan of that show, but anyway, it was funny. I have heard the Wizard as a class get made fun of A lot Because the Wizard has to carry his book of spells around, so he's got to read over the spells to kind of remember them and draw power from them. It's like a sorcerer. He's just been given his power. He's got the natural ability. Warlocks get it from their patrons. Other ones are just our natural spellcasters, but the Wizard, oh, he's got to carry his book around and remember all of his book of spells. So it's like, haha, we're just gifted with spells, we can just cast them whenever we want. You, on the other hand, have to carry this book around and remember them all.
Joe:Well, when we get to the Wizards, I'm going to tell you one of the reasons why I liked my particular Wizard when we get there.
Andrew:I can't wait to hear.
Joe:Before we do this. You know you forgot something. What did? I forget we got to go through what happened Monday night on the campaign. What?
Andrew:happened Monday night.
Joe:Well, you will died. I mean no. So what happened was so?
Andrew:let's recap, recap, so hit the recap.
Joe:So you guys had made it to the island and iceberg the iceberg, I apologize. You made it to the iceberg. You found the in the sea of floating ice. In the sea of floating ice, you found the town that is inside this iceberg, with the jagged wall around it that are peaks. You were able to make a successful negotiation and honorable combat with the leaders of this tribe, right, who then attempted to poison you and failed. The poison. Most of you, and then the cleric who is the shaman of the village, had connected with Bill's character, Toma, and show them a secret way into the dragon's layer with the intent to kill the dragon for her, because she was afraid that the dragon would eventually be the end of her entire tribe, right. So you ended with you sneaking around incredibly well for a dwarf fighter, I might add into a room filled with cold bolts. I've got mad, crazy stealth, you do. You absolutely do. So we ended with you. I think it's a plus seven, yeah, which is unusual for a dwarf, especially a dwarf fighter. So you ended. We ended with you walking into this room where there's 12 kobolds and they kind of all kind of look up at you and you go absolute ape. And that's where we ended. So you have. You didn't explain this in the game at all, but you have a distinct hatred of cobalts. Yes, I do. Was there something in the back? Did you create a backstory and put it onto the character sheet that I should go read, or is it something you can share here?
Andrew:I kind of created it on the fly.
Joe:Right there at that moment Right there at that moment. So do you have something deeper than the fly?
Andrew:I have to flesh this out, but yeah, so. So Thoradin Ironbeard, the mountain dwarf fighter, has a sincere dislike of cobalts, so I don't know why yet. So I have to, I have to work on my my own lore, for for my character and the backstory, you figure, thoradin is over 250 years old, so so at some point maybe he just doesn't like non dwarf creatures his own size. It might be. It might be something like that I'm, I'm the only one, that's I'm the racist. I'm the.
Joe:Heightest Racist Racist he hates anybody who's a non dwarf. That's his heightest.
Andrew:It's a height thing, it's not. It's not a race thing, it's a non dwarf thing. It's a height thing. Okay, not racist. Height est I am, highest I am. I am anti anybody my own height.
Joe:I, I, except other dwarfs sure.
Andrew:They're okay. Anyway, you don't see me hanging around on the other door, so I don't know.
Joe:But anyway, well, you were part of an entire mission to you know, decide whether or not the dwarfs should join the alliance.
Andrew:So I am, I am, I am pro, pro, pro, anti dragon.
Joe:Pro anti dragon. I am pro alliance against the dragon.
Andrew:I am. I am for killing dragons. So I am, I am definitely. I definitely have an issue with with dragons and their minions.
Joe:So maybe you can pick that up with the kobold. It's their dragon isk.
Andrew:Exactly, and anything, anything kind of dragon related I have, I take issue with whether whether they're very large dragons or or tiny little dwarf sized dragons, I will. I don't like them.
Joe:I took it as you walking into this room, and as you walked in there, you see these dozen cobalt and you, underneath your bread, your breath, you pull out your your hammer, cobalt, damn cobalt, and you charged, and you charged. So, in effect, you hit one, you hit two out of three.
Andrew:right, I think I had two out of three yeah.
Joe:Two out of three. You missed the second one, so you hit the first one and you came back with the backswing. On the second one, you overcompensate and you hit the third one, and thus the combat began.
Andrew:Yes. While it was a little, I was going to say maybe it's more like like Indiana Jones snakes I hate snakes Cobolds. I hate cobalt, Right, that's, that's maybe. That's maybe like when I when I walked in here and just saw just a room full of cobalt.
Joe:I think. I think that's it. I think that's it, yeah. So after a somewhat lengthy combat because there were 12 of them you guys completely wiped them out and you started exploring room to room and what was basically turned out to be the inner circle of rooms on what is easily enough described as the first subfloor and there are four rooms there and you've gone through all four of the rooms and you get to the fourth room and you see that there's a ladder that goes up in the fourth room and as you're looking around the ladder you see that there's a guy laying in a bed at the foot of the ladder. It's suspicious. So everybody sits and is like what's up with this guy. So the guy pops up and he basically tells you that he's sitting here and he's down here because he's sick and he's there. They're hoping that he will get better because down inside the ice is actually slightly warmer than being outside in the village and all the wind and everything like that. So the saying that it's it's better for him, this launched into at least after asking a few basic questions. This launched into at least a 15 minute back and forth between Matens, toma, I don't know, thor didn't really got into it. Aynar got in on the conversation why they're not there, should kill him or take him along, and things had just about said I was just trying to find a compromise because I didn't.
Andrew:I didn't like either of the either of the outcomes.
Joe:Well, yes, that's true. And right as you were, Toma was about to say look, we're just going to drag, tie the guy up and dragging behind us and we'll keep him there. Right as Toma was ready to do that, here comes M'Tens, is like hey, now the cat is played by, M'Tens is played by a friend cat who made a big show of checking the character sheet Yep, chaotic evil and chopped off this guy's head and that was the end of the argument. I was like that's it no more, that that's the end of it. And that's where we kind of ended for the night, because that argument went on way too long and we really should have cut the argument off. But it was so much fun seeing like this vicious circle of Toma constantly trying to like be the good guy, which is what he's supposed to do, right, and in arguing against what was arguably a murder hobo.
Andrew:Well, this is, this is, this is a I think it was, I think it was a perfect, perfectly played role play scenario. Yes, so what? Everybody was kind of playing their part. Toma, who is the what half orc paladin? Yeah, so so he is. He is righteously trying to reunite this.
Joe:Well, because he healed we don't think you mentioned he healed. That's true, that's true. Toma healed this man.
Andrew:He healed the man of us of whatever illness had to be fallen him. So he wanted to return him to his, to the tribe, to the tribe but. But that's what we discussed and what and but. 10s had a lot of distrust of this person and Well, I think a lot of the rest of the party really didn't necessarily trust that he was on the up and up. So the eye is eye is kind of the 250 year old Dwarf who's been through plenty. You know. It was just like listen what's not. I Don't like the idea of killing him, but I don't necessarily trust him enough to to let him lose. Like let's just Drag him along with us and see, see what happens. Like I said, of all those fails, we can feed them to the dragon, yeah, yeah, but then. But then cat perfectly played her yeah her character M'Tens, and said you know enough talking, you know, chop, chop off his head for her or his. Who, hugh, rick, her god.
Joe:Yes. So yeah, you know. And then we walked out into the hallway and I was like you know what that's it? It was late enough. We only play two hours. That's something else. Just a quick note for you guys Don't worry about playing these six hour sessions. I know we talked about it already, but don't worry about playing these six hour sessions. We get together once a week. We play two hours. Sometimes we get a lot further than we do in other times, but hey, we just get together and we have a lot of fun. It means the campaign lasts a lot longer and sometimes that can make it a little stale, but you fit in what you can fit in. You know, parent people have kids, people have responsibilities Exactly, you know, this is not supposed to be an all-inclusive. You know this is my entire life. This is meant to be like hey, this is a great thing to do with. However, any hours I can legitimately spare from my life and all the necessities of my life to have fun.
Andrew:Well it's, it's like, it's funny. So we play for a couple hours on a Monday night. Or my neighbor fable, they played with their high school group on a Saturday for 10 hours.
Joe:Oh yeah.
Andrew:It was. It was hysterical. You could hear them screaming and yelling and having yeah, having a fan Fantastic time, which I thought was amazing, but so it can those that depends on the group.
Joe:Those type of sessions really need to be in person, though. If you can't do it like a 10 hour session, like that, I did a six and a half hour session one time on a one-shot Online and it does not work because the people that you need to be able to have the side conversations at the table, otherwise everybody just gets bored right and you know, if you're gonna do those longer sessions, make sure it's in person. But anyway, we digress. Yes, so that was, that was the backstory of this past Monday's adventure, which was which was a lot, of, a lot of fun which is also a very nice Introduction to our first topic of the paladin, because Tomas plays a paladin and his entire argument is based upon Everything that a paladin is about.
Andrew:Let's do it, let's talk it. Let's talk about paladin. So what so? The a kind of quick general description of a paladin is a paladin is a divine warrior class Guided by strict code of ethics and holy devotion. They, they really blend. It's a combination of, you know, the martial prowess with the, with the weapons, and and also divine spell casting to they, they, they, they kind of weave these two together to to combat the forces of evil. It's interesting they are. They're known for their unwavering commitment to justice, as well as their healing abilities, and that fits Toma to a tee. Oh, I really appreciate Toma on Healing me several times Are already, which is, which has been very nice, and the ability to smite their foes with divine power. Did they have that? They're the ones with all the smites?
Joe:Yes, now you know we'll get it.
Andrew:I like. I like the idea of smiting things.
Joe:It's very interesting. We'll get into the whole concept of the of the smites when we get into the classes. More more specifically, however, there the main, the main aspect of the, the paladin is a divine smite which, when you hit, allows you to use a spell slot and get an extra 2d8 damage. So that's a pretty hefty increase and it's 3d8 if it happens to be an undead creature. So the paladins are this power of righteousness Very much against the idea of the undead and anything that might circle around them. Thus their their extra boost on Using their special ability to deal the extra d8 on the undead creatures.
Andrew:So let me ask you this question how does, how does the background of a paladin differ from a cleric? So a cleric, the cleric, derives their, their spellcasting abilities from their faith in a deity. You know how does that? How does that differ from from a paladin and kind of what they're doing?
Joe:So it's, it's, it's very similar, but I think, I think, when we went through the, the cleric, I think the cleric gets their power from their deity or their chosen power and and they, they, they have that by an Association and and, like the description said, that's not always a voluntary association, right, I think the idea of a paladin is more zealous. This is instead of the cleric saying I'm gonna go smite you, I'm gonna go hit you for this person or that person. It's more like the paladin, not only it just worships or supports their deity or or being they. You know all they, they, they're all over that this. They're there. I can't even think the right word. I had it and I lost it. They're very being, they worship this being. They, they, their entire Concept, their entire being is to support this deity and they divide, obtain their power by the deity granting them the power based upon their Almost, like their ability to worship them and how much power, how much faith that they have in their deity. Whereas the the cleric, I think, is a little less about that personal faith and more about I believe in the ideals of my Deity. I think this is a little bit more about, like, I believe in my God to give me the power so this makes me this, this makes me think of.
Andrew:I Was doing all the research for these classes and everything, and the one thing that came up was they kind of reference King Arthur in Monty Python, in the Holy Grail, just that, just this whole hearted belief in, in, in, in what their, their righteous cause, and you know it's, you know that's, that's kind of what you know they, they, they draw this power from their, like I said, though, the the cause that they're right there.
Joe:Their whole being is more about the cause and and the, the faith in their, their leader, their, their, their deity and and less about like Asking for it and more about like you're gonna give it to me, because I believe in the righteousness of all things right.
Andrew:So let's talk about let's talk about the quick build. Oh yeah, let's talk about the quick build for, for a paladin. So, right off the bat, the first thing they they recommend is your. Your first ability score that you should be focused on is strength yes and you really want to, you really want to make sure this is when, when, when you're rolling the dice for your, your various ability scores, you, you really want to aim, aim high for this one. So if that's gonna be a combination of whatever you roll and maybe the Ability score improvement, that that comes at fourth level. However, however you get there, you want, you want to try to really put a lot of, put a lot of heft and put a lot of points behind on your strength score.
Joe:Or perhaps a racial bonus that you can use with it, like the dragonborn, plus two to strength right, dragon, but yeah, dragonborn with the plus two to strength is a, is a great addition. So a dragonborn paladin is is actually not an unheard of idea and I Haven't heard of a lot of them, but there are a few of them out there. You can look for them there.
Andrew:They're there, yeah, and I would say is it well, a human, a human paladin would be we get plus one to everything, you get a plus one to everything, so that would be a good one as well. So so strength is the first one you want to and focus on a half work wouldn't be a bad option either.
Joe:Toma is a half orc paladin, so he feeds into that strength modifier, but then after strength after strength is charisma.
Andrew:And and why, joe, is charisma so important for a paladin?
Joe:Why? Andrew, I'm very glad that you asked that's not scripted at all, no, so the the charisma is very powerful, very important, because the charisma is your Spellcasting modifier when your charisma is where you are Devoting yourself to your deity. So the idea of of how powerful your worship is, how strong your belief is, how Forceful your presence is in this whole thing, is that charisma. So you want to make sure that that's high, so that anything that you cast as a spell that'll have a basis of modifying, modifying Somehow up or down, that modifier will be based upon your charisma.
Andrew:Yeah, I think this is a, this is a tough class to play, only because you want to Really leverage both of those scores strength, strength and charisma. So it's, so it's tough if you, if you don't roll well.
Joe:You could end up with a subpar.
Andrew:Paladin, you get a very strong, strong spells, the strong paladin. So with strength, so you could, you could be great with your martial weapons, but you may not.
Joe:You may not do so great on the, on the spell casting right, or, if you choose to put the, your emphasis on the charisma, maybe he's not as great a right, and that's that's that's personal Personal preference mixed with whatever roles you have or unless you use the point by system or or the standard array, which we'll talk about those things when we do our character creation episode. But so the interesting thing here is one of the recommendations for a paladin is also a half-elf. When I played a paladin for a brief period of Time I actually was a half-elf. Because of the charisma bonus and because of the additional Customization that you can do with the half-elf, I was able to tweak it up and bring up my strength and bring up my charisma. So it's a very fitting class for it, because a Half-elf is going to be feeling kind of excluded from both humans and and elves and by having that exclusion they're going to turn around. And they're going to turn around it and feel the unrighteousness of that situation and create turn, try to balance the universe by helping righteousness.
Andrew:Interesting, interesting take on that. Hmm, I never thought about that. Thirdly, you want to again. We talk about this a lot. I mean dexterity and constitution, but you know, constitutionally, we talk about it being the third one. Um, and I is that's going to be your age pay?
Joe:Yeah, and I think I don't think I've ever heard anybody else describe it this way. But the last episode you described it beautifully this way as a great middle ability, a status stats, because it really is like constitution is important and there's going to be times it's going to be a second. It's very rarely a first. I don't think it's ever been a first in any of the recommendations, but it's. It's sometimes is a second, like a fighter or a barbarian. You're getting up in there. They want you to have it, but it's a perfect middle stat that you want on the top. You know you want this in your top three to make sure your HP is as high as possible, unless you're doing a very specific type of character. But I think you described it very well that way.
Andrew:Yeah, I always feel like it's. It's yeah, strength, charisma, wisdom and intelligence are kind of at the top or the bottom, and that constitution and dexterity are always playing, playing kind of swapping each other out which one, which one, gets priority in those middle, middle abilities, because it's either, it's either you're focusing on higher HP or higher AC, you know, depending on on which one you prioritize which is also going to be based upon your race, your class, the campaign, everything like that.
Joe:So, but yeah, you nailed that. I think that.
Andrew:Excellent. So that covers, I think, a lot of so well they talk about, so I don't want to cut this too short, but they also talk about choosing the noble background.
Joe:Yeah, the noble background fits well, you know, back in the day in the middle ages, the first born tended to be the noble of the family who would continue on ruling the land. The second born tended to be the fighter, the warrior, the guy who was in the military, and the third born went into the clergy. Okay, and I've always thought of this as a noble background, being as one of those third borns who goes into the clergy. But hey, I don't want to become a regular old-fashioned priest. And they became the paladin to uphold that righteousness and that third born would probably also have a lot to deal with. Hey, you know, my brother's picked on me this, that and the other thing, again fitting in the idea that it was an unrighteous no, using a dramatic term for something that was just the brother's bullying their brother trying to create that. So I've always thought of it from that perspective.
Andrew:That's a really good idea. I like that.
Joe:So real quickly before we move on from here, the subclasses that you pick are called oaths and there is one oath that the basic rules talk about is called an oath breaker class, the subclass and it's really fleshed out in the Dungeon Master's Guide. So it's not really in the basic rules but they talk about it. So it's basically an evil paladin and, for a quick reference, Joe Manginello played a little bit on Critical Role and some other D&D live plays and he plays an oath breaker paladin, if you want to go check him out, and he is a dragonborn Interesting.
Andrew:I've watched a little bit of that play, but I haven't, I haven't. There's so much it's been quite a while.
Joe:The problem is it's great stuff but it's so much, so many episodes and they're four, five, six hours a piece. It's like you can stick it in the background sometimes, but you know it's hard to keep up with.
Andrew:It really is, it really is. Before we jump to our next class, let's run through some of the other, the other class features of the paladin, and so the hit dice are 1d10. Yep, again, hit points 10 plus. Constitution modifier.
Joe:Starting level right.
Andrew:Proficiencies being the paladin, being the warrior, so you have a proficiency in all armor and shields.
Joe:Yep.
Andrew:As well as proficiency in simple and martial weapons.
Joe:Which will cover just about your entire game, but of anything you might want to use for melee and a decent amount for range. They have healing abilities as well to help supplement their righteous cause, but they're not geared for it like the cleric would be.
Andrew:Right, yeah, so so they'll have some other abilities at first level that we'll dive into when we get into the standalone class episodes, but for now let's jump into the ranger.
Joe:You played a very successful ranger in a campaign about a year and a half ago two years ago.
Andrew:Which character?
Joe:was that Shadow? No, smoke, smoke, smoke. You did a great job. We were just talking about him earlier. Yes, that's right, and it's the way smoke varied, changed, shows the versatility of the ranger in and of themselves.
Andrew:I love the idea of a ranger. So so kind of a quick description is again ranger. They're skilled trackers. I love the term wilderness warrior.
Joe:Yeah, and it fits in nicely.
Andrew:I like that, the wilderness warrior. They excel at survival, archery, close combat. I was a big fan of the longbow that was.
Joe:You were until you ended up getting those swords at the end of that campaign, which then which is what I was talking about how, like you were all about the range and you were, you were nailing things with like massive damage that entire campaign, and then you got swords and they were very powerful swords but I was like I missed the ranged guy. Yeah, I mean I hate, I'm going to jump ahead a little bit. Sure, the perfect description of a ranger is Aragorn the ranger. I mean, he really does a little bit of everything. He knew about that. That little leaf, the weed that would help Frodo. You see him using a bow from time to time. He's very good with melee combat. He knows tracking, he knows feels. It's exactly everything that you want to think about a ranger character rolls up right into Aragorn.
Andrew:They've got some really cool, cool ability. So they're, they're, they're, very. They've got a big affinity for nature and the outdoors. Again, they're great at the range attacks, Very good at navigating various types of terrain. Just, it's interesting, similar to the Druid they've got, they've got a big environmental bond, which which gives them a lot of unique abilities. That helps them both in the combat and while they're, while they're traveling around.
Joe:And they're, they're called on to defend the fringes of civilization against the encroachment of that wilderness. They walk both lines. Whereas a druid may be almost completely in the forest, the Ranger kind of walks both lines of that, both sides of the line.
Andrew:there it's a really, I think there's a lot of depth to this type of to this can be yeah. Yeah, so it was. It was a lot of fun to play. Yeah, like I said, I really dug just because, because we were talking about this earlier, there was the one battle we were. It was this road was kind of in the valley and so we were. We were up on the on the hill sides on the two sides and I was. I was far away and as the, as the the enemies approached, I was just taking my, my longbow and just nailing them with, with shots it was.
Joe:It was so much fun because I think I think because of longbows range, I think you got two attacks before they even got into range of memory search before anybody else could run up to them. Yeah, it was great oh yeah, I think you took out one and took out half of another one, before we even got near them.
Andrew:Yeah, it was, it's. It's fantastic. So it's. It's a great. It's a great, a great person to have in the party. Yeah, because I think, I think we've fallen into this trap a lot. Everybody, everybody loves the close yeah, close combat, and it's. It's clearly a lot of fun to go in swinging a sword and axe, what it, what, whatever weapon you've got to really just run in there and hit somebody, but it's it's less tactical than than having somebody out in the back shooting the arrow. Oh yeah.
Joe:And that's the other thing is like, you know, there there even is an aspect of that, that, that that character who's got to be more strategic, he's got to figure out. Maybe he should be targeting this guy instead of that guy. Maybe the combat evolved where you know what? They just had three big whacks on him. I was focusing on this guy, but let me switch and go hit him because I can take him down if this is a problem guy in the thing. So it becomes a lot more than, like you said, running up and slapping at somebody.
Andrew:Right, I don't think we've talked about this before, but remember so. So think about this when, when you run up and are in melee range attacking a, an enemy, when you, when you're, when you're up up in close combat, remember you are now engaged with that person. So if you try to move away from that person, they get an attack of opportunity. So so you can't just run from one enemy to another, you know, depending on, maybe, who who's the most injured or or who needs which which of your party needs more help. You know that that's the benefit of something like a ranger, who can stay back and and pick and choose exactly who's getting each shot every time, absolutely, instead of just being stuck and engaged with with one combatant, I think. I think that's a nice feature to to arranged same thing with with a wizard, like a spellcaster, yep, but this is, you know, just a traditional weaponry.
Joe:And that's why I ended up playing a ranger for a brief time in the strict saving thing. Yes, I was playing in the Arakroka, which is a basically looking bird, looking creature who has wings, and my whole concept was I'm going to fly up 1015 feet to get myself out of melee range of anybody and then start plucking arrows. Plucking arrows at people and like that's how you play is like you, you don't always get into melee combat, but when you're in melee combat, they have that capability of being very well, very, be a mahel and handle themselves. They don't have the best armor class, as you'll see when when we talk about their, their proficiencies, but you know it's really, it's really useful, and one of the first things that you need to do when you're, when you're building one of these is upping your dexterity score to make sure that that that bow and arrow is going to be as effective as possible.
Andrew:It's funny we were just talking about this, about constitution, constitution and dexterity, saying they were mostly middle scores.
Joe:Right, but. But we said, but you know, but we also said that constitution is like never in the first one, but we didn't mention anything about the, the dexterity dexterity.
Andrew:Dexterity for for a, for a ranger, is going to be important.
Joe:And you're going to see that again when we go to rogue is it?
Andrew:is it for a rogue as well?
Joe:Yeah, it is yeah.
Andrew:Yeah, so. So, when you're in the quick build, some of the things, again some of the things when you're recreating these characters you want to think of, obviously, yes, so dexterity is going to be your highest ability score, and followed by wisdom, and and why is remind me why wisdom is important? For, for a ranger, is that the, is that like the favorite enemy terrain type things?
Joe:I think it is, but if I'm not mistaken, it's also the spell casting feature. They're using their wisdom, their knowledge of forage of nature to cast their spells and if memory serves their, their wisdom is their spell modifier.
Andrew:Got it. Well, that that makes that makes perfect sense. But it's interesting because I'm just looking at that, and that also fits into their survival. Survival is a wisdom, yeah yeah, I was just looking at that. So they have advantage on survival checks as they. Because they can, they get that favorite enemy ability at first level, which is yeah which is another, another way to to weave some of these abilities into your, your backstory. So we're I don't want to dive into this too much because we'll save it for the, for the standalone episodes. But, yeah, so you can, you can choose a favorite enemy and you get advantage on on checks regarding that favorite enemy, recalling information about them and things like that. So you can, you can weave all of those abilities that you get into your, into your backstory. But back to back to the quick build.
Joe:Now we were also talking about with the, the, the Ranger that you can use your melee weapons if you choose. So if you wanted to do that, instead of making your dexterity your primary stat, you're going to switch that, make that your strength. Instead, correct, drop the dexterity down to three or four, because you're still going to want to have that wisdom. That wisdom is still going to be your spell modifier, so you still want to have that. But your strength can be swapped for your dexterity if you're planning to focus on a Ranger who's using melee weapons.
Andrew:And let's talk about the, the background, the Outlander.
Joe:Yeah, the Outlander. We saw them already, didn't we? We saw them with the Barbarians, if I'm not mistaken. I believe you're correct. So the Outlander is kind of like a guy, not quite like a hermit, but kind as a guy who's like drifting in and out of civilization. If you think about, it's going to be funny because you're not going to really put this together immediately. You've seen Waterworld?
Andrew:I can't say that I've seen Waterworld you haven't seen.
Joe:Waterworld. I can't use that example then.
Andrew:I think based on it's a.
Joe:So the whole world has become Water, except for one little piece of content. I'm familiar with the plot Now. Kevin Costner plays this guy who just kind of floats in and out of civilization as it exists currently in and out and he exists off of nature, in nature of what it is. So it's a little bit of an extreme example, but this is what an Outlander is. This is a person who's kind of in, but they really also are very comfortable, prefer being out and they survive on the land.
Andrew:Yeah, so part of the official description is you grew up in the wilds, far from the comforts of town and technology. I think you're talking about kind of like the hermit the hermit background as well, so you've witnessed the migration of herds larger than forests, survived whether more extreme than any city dweller could comprehend, and enjoyed the solitude of being the only thinking creature for miles in any, in any direction.
Joe:I love that.
Andrew:Yeah, there is just. You know again whether you're a nomad and explorer or recluse. You know, whatever you are, I like even one of the one of the origins is a marauder. You can be a marauder, which I thought was which I think is fun a tribal marauder.
Joe:And I think that one would actually say marauder. That would fit in nicely with the, the barbarian aspect.
Andrew:Yeah, all for sure. So there's some really cool things with that, with that Outlander background that you can, you can play with. But that's just one of one of many numerous. If you want to play a kind of typical Ranger that's, that's the background you would you would go with. Yeah, so there are also some, are some races that are that are are kind of geared toward toward a Ranger. We're not going to get too too deep into them, but again, again, things like some of the dwarves and humans, obviously humans with the plus one to everything is a good one. Red elves, you know, get that plus one to wisdom and a plus two to decks. So it's a perfect Ranger Ranger combination there.
Joe:And I think the reason why so many classes fit into the Ranger is because you are, you can be dexterity with it. You can use strength or dexterity as your, as your, your primary stat, and different races, a lot of different races, will fit between those two or three, those two different bases. So it's a lot to do to do that.
Andrew:Yeah, there's there's there's a lot of good races to play, but that's just some of the things you might want to think about. But again, we're just talking about the races and the basic rules. There are so many more races that have been added on with all the other books and everything like that.
Joe:Not to mention the homebrew.
Andrew:Yeah, I mean it's, the possibilities are almost endless. But again, we're staying with the basic rules. So the easiest way to get started and go from there. Now for some of the class features for Ranger their hit dice as well are the one D 10. Yeah, they've got the same same things going on there. Their proficiencies now with armor, just light armor and medium armor and shields, Because I don't necessarily think of a Ranger really wearing armor.
Joe:Well, yeah, so you got to remember. I have, from that, mistaken the. I think it's called the Bardard armor, the leather armor that has the metal on it.
Andrew:That's class that's classified Started armor.
Joe:Thank you, that's classified as a medium armor of memory, so really yeah. I'm pretty sure you can look that up. I'm pretty sure that's a medium armor, so like I can still see a Ranger wearing something, like that, but I agree. Typically there would just be leather or furs or something to that effect. So, and you know, in the same vein, in my head I can't think of too many Rangers Ranger like characters who are using a shield. But I can still see it from a, from a certain standpoint, because the shield, it gives you a plus two and it doesn't cost you anything except a free hand.
Andrew:Yes, because I still I still have Rangers stuck in my head as as ranged fighters, so I don't I feel like armor and shields kind of get in the way of drawing a, drawing a bow and shooting arrows, so like that's kind of where my head is at.
Joe:So I think that's where I think that's where it's supposed to be. I think the Ranger is at its heart is more of a ranged character who has some melee capabilities. However, this particular class you know when, when 5e first came out, a lot of people disliked the Ranger, severely disliked the Ranger. I mean, it was considered to be one of the more hated classes of the entire thing and I think that had to do with the fact that it was so vague in different aspects that people didn't know how to assert themselves in there. So I think at the end of the day, we're adapting to, we're thinking of a Ranger as a range, but it can be close in.
Andrew:Right and again with weapons, proficiencies and simple martial weapons. They've got some saving through proficiencies and strength and dexterity, which are going to make perfect sense for out in the wild, in the wilderness. I don't. I want to point this one out just in particular, because I always look at kind of what are some of the inspirations for in pop culture, for for Rangers, and this one just really stands out to me Katniss Everdeen.
Joe:Oh, absolutely.
Andrew:I think it's probably like the, the ideal kind of stereotype of what a Ranger would be, with her bow and arrow prowess, and and she's just got that, that great Ranger.
Joe:Well, I'm sorry, I still think Aragorn trumps that, but yes, I'm talking about more.
Andrew:Aragorn is definitely. Yeah, I think he's probably the quintessential, the, the quintessential inspiration for, for the Ranger class in modern times. If you're more modern. Who, who, who mimics that kind of yeah, those kind of abilities? Would be someone like Katniss Everdeen.
Joe:Now for all you Disney lovers, that'd be kind of Meridia, I believe in.
Andrew:Merida.
Joe:Merida, which was very much a character who enjoyed the bow and was very much into living more of a wild lifestyle, despite her noble Scottish parents Again, great backstory for fantastic, for writing a Ranger character. And one of the last things that kind of popped up was Hawkeye from.
Andrew:Marvel fame.
Joe:I mean, come on, obviously the guy uses a bow, but when you check him out, hawkeye is not just this guy who sits back and plucks a bow, he gets into combat all the time. He's running around punching people, slapping them with the bow and then shooting somebody 30 feet away with it with the arrow. Not something you can practically do in D&D, but there are ways to make something like that function. Just remember, you can't run away from a character, a creature, without taking an attack against them, without certain spells or abilities in place.
Andrew:You know, if you're engaged in combat, hand to hand combat with them, yeah, you get that. Your enemy will get that opportunity, attack when you, if you, try to disengage from them. All right On to what's next the Rogue.
Joe:I like how we held it for like the exact same period. So for you you people who are listening, who are longtime fans of D&D the Rogue is your generic replacement of a thief. They're known for stealth, agility, a mastery of skills with their hands picking locks, disarming traps, stealing things from people's pockets. They're great at long range weaponry and they're actually very good at close quarters combat when using certain weapons like the dagger, which is a dexterity based weapon We'll talk about that in a little bit and they have a lot of quickness and special abilities, which we'll talk about when we do the standalone episode that lets them get in, close, hit and then actually walk out of combat, like we were just talking that you can't without taking that engagement attack. Oh, can they? Yes, they can, really. Yeah, so they have an ability, yes, Disengage.
Andrew:Oh, they've got disengage.
Joe:They have disengage.
Andrew:Okay.
Joe:So they have the ability, like I was just saying, that they can just step away from that combat. It's called disengage and they can take it as a bonus action which allows them to run up attack and then step back and they take the time to move away in a way that they can't get attacked.
Andrew:Interesting. I love the one thing in my research here talking about there favoring sneak attacks and precision strikes to outmaneuver and outwit and outlast wait, not survivor. But I love the idea of them sneaking up behind somebody just like, slashing their throat and going away.
Joe:Ducking out yeah.
Andrew:Like proficiency and stealth.
Joe:Yeah, which you know. We're not going to get into subclasses today, but there is a subclass called the assassin. That is that exact Slit the throat, long arrow shot. And you know we think about assassins in medieval times, the poison and daggers. But nowadays assassination often has a sniper rifle long range component. There's, your sniper rifle of the day, is your bow and arrow. They can make that shot disappear from the rooftop and nobody ever finds them.
Andrew:That's right Interesting, they're gone before, before the arrow even hits the person and kills them. They're there already. They're out of the picture.
Joe:So, like I said, this is once again going to be one of the races that we're going to prioritize. Our dexterity is the highest score to make sure that you're stealthy, agile and able to use the light weapons that are in the D&D manual, the light and versatile weapons that you can use your dexterity as your modifier instead of your strength most prominent, your daggers.
Andrew:Love those daggers.
Joe:Yes.
Andrew:So okay, so the dexterity should be first. Now, this is so. So next is you have the option either go for intelligence as your second ability score, your next highest ability score especially when I sell it things like investigation or there's an archetype you get the roguish archetype at level three. So if you're going to go for the arcane trickster archetype, you want to emphasize intelligence over charisma, but you want to. So in your second score, go for intelligence, or go for charisma if you want to emphasize those deception and more of the social interaction of your rogue. So it's an either or on those.
Joe:Which is also interesting because the rogue is a class that upsets the balance on so many aspects of the game, in my opinion, that it's not surprising that on the quick bold, your abilities that they're trying to tell you upsets the natural balance the second time that you have in dexterity, and then they're like go with your intelligence. Who the heck is going to use intelligence? If you're such a wizard, which we'll talk about in a little bit, who's going to use intelligence for anything?
Andrew:Well, these guys will, oh, exactly. So let's dive into the class features of the rogue. So their hit die is a 1d8. Yep, and so a little lower than your paladin, which the paladin?
Joe:and the ranger were 1d10.
Andrew:So this is a 1d8. So you're not getting as much back on each of those dice as you would with those characters.
Joe:But which also makes sense, because your rogue doesn't tend to be one of your most physically domineering people. They tend to be athletic but not physically domineering.
Andrew:Right, and that goes back towards. You'll see it in the proficiencies for armor. The only armor they're proficient in is light armor, again, medium heavy armor. You're you're not going to be stealthy wearing, wearing that kind of armor, so it just it makes perfect sense that your own proficiency would be in some type of light armor, if anything.
Joe:Specifically heavy armor actually gives you a disadvantage on stealth rose disadvantage. Just as a quick reminder. You roll the dice, the d20, twice and take the lower of the two rolls and then not your modifier to it. So if you're trying to sneak around, this is what we were talking about with your fighter. If I'm not mistaken, your fighter is he's actually wearing medium armor actually. Yes, so you don't have that disadvantage, but a fighter would typically be wearing medium or heavy armor. Is very difficult for somebody to sneak with that kind of stuff.
Andrew:Correct, and I still have that crazy crazy.
Joe:You got the crazy DEX.
Andrew:Yeah, you better believe it Now. Weapon proficiency, simple weapons and a lot of your typical things like hand crossbows, long swords, rapiers uh, short swords, all the all those things your, your rogue, will have a proficiency in.
Joe:They also end up with a very special tool proficiency with thieves tools. Yes, now, the only people in the game who have the capability of picking a lock, either on a door or a chest, are those who actually have these tools. The people who have proficiency in the thieves tools automatically are the rogue. So you can be a fighter, you can be a wizard, you can be whatever. You can have these tools and use them to try to pick a lock. However, only the rogues get the add their proficiency bonus to that role. Everybody else is just a straight roll on their, their dexterity, right, right right, that's great.
Andrew:I mean it's, it's definitely getting getting that plus two, plus three, plus four.
Joe:Yeah, Based upon your yeah.
Andrew:Based on whatever level you're at is, it can be a big help. Uh, and and succeeding on on your role for and it's one more thing.
Joe:It's one more thing that makes them Distinct.
Andrew:For sure. Uh, what else do they get? Oh, my God, there's only so many skills to choose from. Yeah, I don't want to. Yeah, there's so much to dive into.
Joe:Um, that's the problem with all of these races. You know, all of these classes. There's we're hitting them all on the high points and we're going through, we're going to come back and we're going to go deep dives into each of these things, because the bottom line is we really cannot spend the decent amount of time on each of these things. We'll be here for 20 hours.
Andrew:I want to talk quickly about some of the. I just love these so much, like the pop culture pop culture inspiration for for rogues. So I like the rogue idea of Han Solo being a rogue.
Joe:He's such a smooth talker and operator. Yeah, he doesn't have a lot of the sneaking ability, but he was a smuggler, but he's I. To me that's always the charisma in Han Solo he talks his way in and out of everything.
Andrew:The other one because? Is that there's a rogue subclass for swashbucklers themselves. So think of Jack Sparrow. You can. You can build a pirate. There is a specific subclass for rogues, called swashbucklers.
Joe:So but you have heard of me.
Andrew:Exactly. Thank you, Jack. Jack made an appearance on the show. That's impressive, and we're only what. Seven, eight episodes in and we're out. We're getting some really big stars. The last inspiration I want to mention I really dig this one cat woman.
Joe:Yeah, I was a little surprised when I saw this one come up. Why were you surprised? Well, I've always believed in the idea of a rogue being possibly good or evil. But I've always looked at them and on the more not evil side no more slimy side, not necessarily evil just kind of like, yeah, not the most trustworthy of person. But you know, this is talking about the morally gray aspect of the idea and really I should have been looking at the rogue as, like you know, there could be a good rogue out there. I wonder.
Andrew:Yes, you're thinking about something Would.
Joe:Robin Hood fit. I know he would fit the Ranger characteristic, but as a person who steals from the rich and gives to the poor and has to commit perform all those ambushes. I'm sorry, but go back to Catwoman.
Andrew:No, robin Hood is another one, but I love, I just love that that description I was I was reading it somewhere about morally gray actions in a good party and I say her immorally or criminal methods might earn the disapproval of the party, but she is a good ally to have on your side. So so I love this, the way to play a rogue, because, again, in an adventuring party you're, you know your rogue is going to help you kill, kill the enemy, so so in in a way, they're on your side, but but they're, they're always working their own angle. That I feel like the rogue always has this, this agenda. That that they're, they're following, that that they're with the party, but not necessarily always on the same same page.
Joe:Yeah, no, I get that and that's kind of where, like that, I was coming in with my thought process is that I don't know if I would ever trust a rogue inside my party. I would be constantly doing checks to make sure none of my stuff was stolen from me or something like that and actually now you're saying that and that. That. That clued off something else in my head. That would be the idea of you know bad things for good intentions. You know vast majority of people nowadays that I've seen they will play a rogue, usually on the neutral or even on the evil side, because they enjoy playing things on the more evil side just because it's different. But if you're playing a party or a party, the whole party will be that way, not just a rogue, but if you're playing a party, who's mostly good people. How do you justify the evil that a rogue does in the overall good of the campaign? And if you're big role-players, that can generate a good amount of role-play back and forth throughout the adventure and even in the combat. You know you see a rogue who you know in just the other day. He was joking but he stole the Paladin has a holy symbol and he stole the Paladin's holy symbol just to be a prick. You know you're about to die. Maybe I'll heal you, I'll think about it and, like you know how do you deal with a character that you have to constantly deal with his pestiness. But you know you also need him and you'll see a lot of shorts. About two, three years ago, right when the beginning of the pandemic came around, there was a lot of TikToks created about D&D and people kind of saying how, like these, there are a lot of comic shorts and stuff like that. And a lot of them revolved around the idea of what happened to the rogue. The rogue was that pain in the ass and the rogue died and all of a sudden everybody's like oh yeah, but he was good and doing this or doing that, right.
Andrew:It was just like just thinking about all this it made me. The other character it made me think of was in the latest Indiana Jones movie, dial Destiny Teddy the kid. I haven't seen it yet, you haven't seen it yet I have not Okay. So, teddy, who's this kid is kind of like a street urchin, petty thief, you know he picks people's pockets and things like that. But it's like he's kind of part of the indie team and kind of helping out, but he can't help but steal Indiana Jones watch. Like it's just like it just made me perfectly think of the rogue Like he's helping you, but he's also he's like he's helping you with one hand but the other hand is, you know, is picking your pocket.
Joe:So the mummy, rachel Wise's brother. He's always stealing something from everybody, but he has knowledge, he's a smart guy, he's just. He's just incompetent. He's just got to steal something from everyone.
Andrew:You got to steal something, but yes, there are a lot of fun.
Joe:It can be a lot of a fun character and, again, depending on how much role play is going on inside the party, you can create that palette in or cleric looking disapprovingly on them whereas they are, you know, constantly, often doing their, their pesky things.
Andrew:Yes, indeed, and with that let's move on to our next class, the sorcerer. So, the sorcerer Joe, what is go on with that? What is a sorcerer?
Joe:Well, the sorcerer is. So we were talking about in the beginning of the podcast about how the wizard is the only one that really has to do all that studying. Well, the sorcerer is somebody who has that ability innate inside of them. Very frequently, that innate ability is coming from some type of dragon blood someplace in their past. That lends them their power and lends them their, their ability. Sometimes it's not, sometimes it's just a touch of a demon or the blessing of a dryad that has given them this, this, this power, and it just flows through them. And that's one of the cool things about the rogue is that it kind of creates a dichotomy in my head is that it's it's either the dragon or it's some random element that is giving them the power. And when we talk about the actual subclass in its own episode, we're going to talk about what's called wild magic, which is like an effect that has. It's an unexpected consequence of using magic at certain points in certain conditions, and we'll get into all that. You don't get that when you have the draconic, draconic bloodline of it. So it's kind of interesting. It's like you know, you got the controlled draconic bloodline and the wild stuff.
Andrew:So this made me think of something, joe when you're, you're talking about wild magic. So I played a sorcerer the rabbit, the harragon sorcerer, oswald, yeah, oswald the lucky rabbit, yeah, but, but talking about just briefly talking about wild magic, because it was just one of my favorite spells, chaos bolt, which was, which was an amazing spell. So chaos bolt was a. It started off as a level one spell and the damage was 2d8. So so you rolled to 2d8 dice and you and what happened was the type of damage differed based on, based on whatever you rolled. So it was, it was really a, a chaotic spell, and so what happened was you would roll, so, for example, you'd roll your 2d8, one of them's a four, one of them's a seven, so you can pick between those two types of damage. For example, seven was psychic damage, right, so you could choose whichever one you wanted. So there was always this chaotic nature to this spell. However, if, when you rolled the 2d8, if they, if they both, were this, if they landed on the same number, you could then try. So it did damage to to that person. But then what happened was the spell jumped to somebody else within 30 feet. So, you could. You could make multiple attacks with a single spell, so it was very chaotic.
Joe:As long as you kept getting those doubles.
Andrew:Anytime you rolled a double roll, roll a double on the doubles, on the d8s you it could jump to another person. It could never go back to the same person. You were hit, but you could go on to somebody else.
Joe:So I think there was one time I think I hit six, I think it was six nulls. I think you bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce. It was crazy, it was insane. Yeah, the funny thing is I'm a fighter in my Tuesday night campaign and I took the aberrant dragon mark out one point when we were leveling up and I was getting a feet Right and it allowed me to take a cantrip and a magical spell. I took precedigitation as the cantrip, but for the spell I took chaos, Chaos bolt. So last night, last night we ended up in a combat and I specifically we were surprising them. So I'm like let me hit this guys with a chaos bolt and maybe I get a bounce. I didn't. I got like seven and a two. So I used the. I used the psychic damage because we were fighting dragon, but but it was just like. It was like oh, I remember this, let me use this, this will be fun. And it just turned out to be like wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
Andrew:You throw a nat 20 in there and you could really do some.
Joe:Oh, forget it. You can keep bouncing that up and yeah, oh, for sure. But yeah, they're, they're an interesting class, they really are. So let's talk, let's, let's their their. Their whole concept is about screw you know your demon packs and screw your studying. My ability is in my blood versus someplace else.
Andrew:I can also lead to a lot of arrogance. So I could, I could understand this wild magic, like it just, it just kind of flows out of them and they, they, they. They don't necessarily so a wizard. A wizard has used his intelligence to learn and and master these spells, but but a sorcerer has just kind of been imbued with this, with this magical ability. So they, they don't necessarily, they haven't necessarily spent the time to to master the spells, like like a wizard has. So I could see that more chaotic nature in a lot of their, their, a lot of their spellcasting. So that could be a very interesting way to to play the character.
Joe:Absolutely.
Andrew:Yeah. So let's talk. Let's talk about building a sorcerer. So, right off the bat again, charisma is, is, is going to be your highest ability score. That's, that's what's powering your, your spells. So that's, that's what's, that's what's behind your spellcasting, is your, your charisma ability.
Joe:Once again, one of the non-common stats jumping to the head of the line. Yeah.
Andrew:It's a it's, it's, it's very important as far as your, your spellcasting and I like, I like having the, I like having, like, the charismatic sorcerer. It all kind of plays into that.
Joe:Well, again that that comes into the idea. I believe in my own innate ability. That's my charisma, my, my machoism in myself.
Andrew:Yeah, and then follow that up with constitution.
Joe:Yeah, these things are going to be kind of squishy if you're not careful.
Andrew:Yeah, so so get, get some HP in there and then and then go right behind that with dexterity. So either one of those you know, you know, get a high AC level up your HP.
Joe:So then they, they, they also tell you that the, the suggest a hermit background, somebody who's been out there, kind of studying off on their own, living in the outside, living in a some place in the wilderness, probably, since you're by yourself building up that ego that you were talking about, but perfecting their abilities before they headed out into their general world.
Andrew:Yeah, see, I don't know, I don't know how I feel about the hermit background and I know that's what I know, that's what. What do you like? What does it? The co-suggest? I just, I just don't buy it. I don't think it's, I don't think it plays into who or what a sorcerer is really all about. So I would, I would probably disagree with with choosing the hermit background. I agree with you.
Joe:Again, wow, I would think the folk hero or even the noble backgrounds would actually fit in better, because both the folk hero would be like the person who spills himself up too much from the fact of the people who worship him as a hero, and the noble background we've already kind of talked about this could be the guy who's like look, you know, I'm, I'm a noble, I'm this great person, I'm this fantastic thing, I'm a true all you.
Andrew:Yeah, I mean there, there there's a lot of different ways you can go with it, but I just don't think that.
Joe:I agree. I think the hermit is a bit of a stretch, but I think they were trying to build it and plop prop in something that was in the basic rules.
Andrew:Even criminal Like I could, again going going back to honor among thieves the D&D movie Simon the Soso Sorcerer, what, what was he using his magical ability to do? He was, he was conducting, doing one thing on stage and and picking the pockets of of all the people in the in the theater that were watching him.
Joe:And even the acolyte would fit in there too, because you think of the hermit was just really a reach for me. I have to agree.
Andrew:Yeah there, there's so many other other ways to play that that are much better than than choosing the hermit background. But how do you feel? So? They talk about some of the spells that you want to choose off the bat. They talk about light, which I which I think is a great utility Can trip right Utility, cantrip prestidigitation.
Joe:It fits into the charisma Fresh cut grass, yes. It fits into the, the, the charisma idea, where you can boost your voice or create this one thing or another. I think it fits in for the role, not necessarily for the play.
Andrew:Right, you know. Some more fun ones, Ray of frost.
Joe:Yeah, I'm not very familiar with it, but that's a lot of fun too.
Andrew:I've heard I mean you make a range spell attack. I mean it's 1d8 cold damage, which isn't bad, especially for first level. For first level. I mean that goes up at the fifth level and 11th level.
Joe:Yeah.
Andrew:I mean 3d8 on a cantrip Again.
Joe:Well, you got to get up there to level 11.
Andrew:You got to get up there. But even even when you hit fifth level for 2d8 for a cantrip.
Joe:Cantrip as a 1d8 is still pretty crazy yeah.
Andrew:And you got the same thing on. They also recommend shocking grasp as a more of a melee one.
Joe:You have to be up there and grab them, but yeah, yeah.
Andrew:But again, if you are going to be a melee range, if, if somebody comes up to you and attacks you, you're you as the sorcerer aren't necessarily going to run into run into battle, but but if, but, if, if, if an opponent comes up to you and attacks you, you've got something that you can use on them when they, when they, come at you.
Joe:Which leads into the first actual, first level spell that they suggest, which is shield. Yeah, shield is something you cast as a reaction that increases your AC by five. So if somebody does break through the ranks gets to you, they try to attack you. You can use this to try to block that attack.
Andrew:Yes, and yet again the other recommended first level spell.
Joe:Magic, missile, love this spell. This spell comes up so frequently in so many different aspects because it is so versatile. So so, so much utility out of it.
Andrew:Well, it automatically hits.
Joe:That's the brilliant part of it.
Andrew:So it's an attack spell that doesn't require an attack roll. Correct so it's, even though it's only 1d4.
Joe:Well, it's actually 3. 1d4 plus 1.
Andrew:3 1d4s. Well, 3 1d4s, I'm saying each individual dart is 1d4 plus 1.
Joe:But think about that. That's still 3d4 plus 3 on one creature and you're guaranteed to hit with it. That's a pretty decent thing there.
Andrew:It is, it really is, and then and we won't get into all the things, but it it, it as you level up, it powers up as as you get higher spell slots. So but magic missile was always a favorite of mine, with Giffy Yang it was just, it was a fun one because again, it's a guaranteed hit.
Joe:And you constantly rolled the Ries on it. You were always up there.
Andrew:It's great, yeah, when you roll high on them. It's very, very satisfying. But but again, you don't have to focus all three darts on on the same enemy. So you can. If you've got Kobolds and things like that, you know lower, lower level kind of minions, you know that you can start to do some significant damage on on multiple creatures all at all at once. Yeah, so it's interesting. When I was, when I was looking at what, what races are good ones to play for for a sorcerer this is an interesting one. Fable, our next door neighbor would would appreciate this. The T-flank.
Joe:Yeah.
Andrew:Because you get the plus two to charisma and a plus one to intelligence right off the bat. So that's, that's a nice help for.
Joe:Definite, especially with that charisma modifier coming in there.
Andrew:Absolutely so that that that'd be a lot of fun to play a T-flank sorcerer. Like I said, I played a harragon, which was, which was a rabbit, and and the whole backstory was that I was the, the magic rabbit in a magician's show. The magician was actually a sorcerer and lightning struck one night and and his powers transferred to to me as the rabbit and I. I grew in size and he and he shrank in size and now I was this, this rabbit on the run from a very angry small magician who wanted powers back. So there's, there's all sorts of ways to, to, to play a sorcerer, but similar, similar to the sorcerer. Another spellcaster, joe, is the warlock.
Joe:So I have the absolute least experience with the warlock of every single race. I think I've owned a class. I think I've only DMed somebody playing a warlock once and that was when our friend Mike played a warlock in a campaign. I forget who, I forget who he was. He was his, his patron was, but it was something that didn't necessarily he was playing a dwarf and it was a patron. That was a patron of water, I think it was her or moisture liquid, really, yeah. And and the reason why he picked it was because he had himself as a dwarf. He was very proficient at making beer ale and it fed into that concept and it was really good. He found an underground lake that this, this being, happened to be partially inhabiting, and that's where he ended up getting his power, the idea of a warlock being that you make a pact or a deal with some higher power, being devil, deity, strange, unknown creature who lends you their power and allows you to use it. But they're going to call in that favor from time to time when they want certain things done. I was watching a play on a D&D play on YouTube and this kid was playing a warlock and him and his group was exploring this ancient city and all of a sudden he disappeared. Nobody knew he was gone and then when he came back, nobody asked any questions. They go to the library of this place looking for a specific book. He had already lifted it because his patron didn't want them to have it. Ooh yeah, it was very interesting, that's. That's an interesting twist. So as a DM, it can be a little difficult to DM a warlock unless you, unless you either ignore the idea that their patron may want them to do things that is counter to what the group is, or maybe just nothing to do with the group and they just disappear, or you have to build that into your storyline if you're trying to be that inclusive aspect of the backgrounds.
Andrew:Right, right, right. So how would, how would you? What are the recommendations for building a basic?
Joe:warlock. No, shockingly enough, it's going to be the charisma again, because, remember, charisma is your ability to interact with other people's primary aspects and you're making a deal with the patron of some sort. That charisma is where you're drawing your power from. So it's definitely there. Constitution's going to pick up right after that.
Andrew:And remind us why is constitution so important? It's all about your hit points? Yes, it is, and again I mean.
Joe:Well, it's also interesting. We last episode and the beginning of this episode we're talking about constitution as a middle stat and we see it here as a top one, two stat. But it's because of the lack of armor. Most of the other races that have it and some other classes that have it as a two, three, three, four stat, they all have some type of armor to boost their AC. In general, the warlocks, they don't really have that. They get light armor but they're not dealing with this extra shield and all this kind of stuff. It's not in their nature to wear this stuff. So the higher hit points are required if something gets through.
Andrew:So my question would it be better to focus on dexterity and level up your AC? Because if you're going to be a ranged spellcaster, do you want to protect yourself, after you cast a spell, from somebody coming back and attacking you? Do you want to up your AC instead and then maybe put constitution?
Joe:third, so that follows the logic that we've been describing so far. But I think a counter argument to everything that we've been arguing about using dexterity to do that is to build up your hit points. Now, in principle, I think you're right that having a higher AC is, long terms, going to be better, because you're going to generate more misses by having a higher AC. That being said, in the short term it can seem very appealing to not care as much what's going to hit you as being able to survive that hit. So five extra hit points might make a lot bigger of a difference in the lower level than one extra AC. And that's the other thing. If you have two dexterity stat points, that ups your AC by one. If you have two constitution stat points, that ups your hit points by one per level, it stacks.
Andrew:That makes a lot of sense because your hit points are going up on every level.
Joe:And you're getting that base plus one every level. For those two hit points as well, your AC is kind of more stable than focusing on the HP.
Andrew:So that makes a lot of sense.
Joe:It's really a trade off, and I can see why people would rather suck up the damage, and be able to suck up more, than being able to just deflect it or avoid it.
Andrew:Right, that makes a lot of sense. So some of the other features to the Warlock are 1d8. On the hit dice Joe mentioned, they've got the proficiency in just light armor and simple weapons, because they're really a spellcaster, it's really more of a ranged attack so they're not in the throws of action when it comes to the battles. So that's really what they're focused on. And Joe talked about the patron. We'll get into all those details more so on the standalone episodes. But yeah, you do have a patron that is really granting you your powers.
Joe:Based upon a pact, usually, yes, like I said, a deal with the devil. Yes, but the time has consequences.
Andrew:So who can you make a pact with? It's not necessarily just a deity.
Joe:It's not a deity. Like I said, there was a I mean, this is really something to dive into the episode with the main class episode with but that I cannot remember the name of it. He found it and then I found it in the general rules as well. Now, the general rules one of the specific books I forget what it was called, but it was just a being of water. You can make a pact with the devil. You can make the pact with the deity you can make a pact with. I think one of them is like an outwardly Feywild creature that has powers that you can really make this in. It's really yeah, so I think it was called the Great Old One. Yeah, there you go. You got new research there.
Andrew:Well, this is about the Silver Surfer.
Joe:Right, right, oh, that's his. Okay. Do the Great Old One, okay.
Andrew:But yeah, something similar to the Great Old One. Yes.
Joe:There are so many deities that are beings of power willing to share, for something to be done for them.
Andrew:Interesting. So before I talk about the Silver Surfer, let's talk about so two races that are good, with plus twos to Charisma are your half elves and tieflings. And tieflings get that nice fire resistance as well, so that's a nice feature for them to have as a warlock.
Joe:Plus that hellish rebuke when somebody does get too close to you.
Andrew:Yeah for sure, but as Joe was saying. So a really great example of a warlock in service to a Higher power. Higher power With the new spell jammer material, silver Surfer is a perfect one in the space plane so to speak. Yeah, and so could you have a surfboard in D&D.
Joe:I think you could modify a flying carpet statistics and make it a board Interesting?
Andrew:That would be cool.
Joe:See, I'm doing some research while you're talking about that. I'm looking it up. There is a Great Old One in D&D. That's why it clued me in.
Andrew:I'm like, yeah, there is a Great Old One.
Joe:So it has. However, you get your power again. We'll get into that with that episode, but it's really interesting that way. Silver Surfer is the Herald of Galactus.
Andrew:He's the Herald of Galactus. Yes, yeah, interesting, so awesome. That leads us to our final, final class.
Joe:What I said, my favorite.
Andrew:Well, I'm glad we finally got to it. So what is it, Joe?
Joe:It's the wizard.
Andrew:The wizard, the wonderful wizard of Joe, you're a wizard Joseph, yes so you know, I'm a what.
Joe:I'm a what. Now You're a wizard, harry. So I think one of the reasons why I really dug the wizard in the first place is yeah, I know everybody thinks it's lame that you know they have to do all the digging and all the work. I like the idea of a reward system. He works and busts his ass on something and then he gets that power because he memorized it, he learned it, he worked at it, he did it over and over again. This is a guy who takes high intelligence, something I've always liked, and that's why, when I made my wizard character, I of course had the high intelligence as possible High intelligence to learn and understand how the mystic arcs work and take literally no special ability and build yourself into having this special ability.
Andrew:Now correct. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think the wizards have the widest selection of spells.
Joe:I think that is correct.
Andrew:I thought I read that somewhere. I guess, being a bonus to having to learn the spells and keep them written down, they get the widest selection of available spells, if I recall correctly.
Joe:That sounds about right. Regardless of where it is, it adds a lot more role play flair, I think for the wizard also. I was talking about writing them all down. When I created my wizard, I was a stone giant. I had a lot of fun doing that because they weren't overly. Maybe it was a half giant, I can't remember exactly. They weren't overly intelligent as a species, as a race, but I made mine very intelligent. When it came to the idea of having a spell book, I got a little creative. Instead of having a typical book or this that I had my guy carry a pouch. Inside the pouch were stones. Inscribed on the stones you might expect something of a more tribal society to do was my spells. I was just like, oh, this is a cool way to tweak this. When I role played my wizard, I went up and every time I took a spell I looked up the Latin for that spell and I would speak the Latin in game. Then I'd say, okay, this is the spell that I'm using. It was kind of a cool concept because this is my attempt at diving into the role play.
Andrew:Nice. I recall that. I recall a lot of Latin being used.
Joe:Like I was saying, the primary stat that you're going to use for these guys is intelligence, because you need to be understanding of the mystic arts, the wisdom of the magic. Right yeah, definitely intelligence because that's your, that's your primary spell, cast Absolutely.
Andrew:It makes perfect sense, especially having to write everything down and remember everything. It all plays into that ability. Constitution and dexterity. They recommend are the next two ones Right.
Joe:Again, same debate that we've been discussing this whole time. Constitution boosts up your hit points. Dexterity boosting up the ability to avoid your AC.
Andrew:Right, it just depends on how you want to play it Again. Constitution is a great one because your hit points do increase as you level up. Ac really pretty much stays exactly the same unless you get arm or multiple points, yeah, so so what?
Joe:what are the other things? Is they then suggest in the basic rules, if you're going to go with the school of enchantment, that you should use charisma? Now, one of the things in the basic rules is we'll talk about it when we get to that. We say this a lot, we talk about it when we get to that that class dedicated episode. There are so many different types of places, ways, subclasses for the wizard In the player's handbook. I believe the wizard had more subclasses than any other rate class in the player's handbook because there are seven different schools of magic and one of them being enchantment, which is based upon your ability to convince people on things that you're doing. Thus the charisma bonus.
Andrew:Yes, and then after that they talk about what spells to choose. So some of your cantrips they recommend mage hand, which is a fantastic utility spell. Highly recommend mage hand. It's very. It comes in handy in all sorts of situations. Yeah, casting light.
Joe:Yep.
Andrew:Again, useful. Useful if you don't have dark vision, but so many of the, so many of the races do have.
Joe:It's a very utilitarian spell, cantrip, if you have people who don't have dark vision Correct, and they also recommend ray of frost. Yeah. I talked about, so that's yeah, I like it, it's it's all right.
Andrew:You know it's another, it's a 1d8. So it's it's a helpful spell and again, it reduces the speed by 10 feet. So if you want to keep someone away not not getting at you very easily, it's a good way to slow them, to slow them down.
Joe:Again, I had a little fun with mine. I took Toe the Dead and I would play. For whom the bell tolls by Metallica every time I cast this cantrip. It was a little way of being my own, yes.
Andrew:You love. You love your music. It's like you. You really should be a bard, because you're always singing.
Joe:You have no idea how much I want to try to be a bard. I have so many ideas for being a bard. I'm sure you do. One of my ideas is taking a Kenku who can't talk and then having all of my spells as a wizard based upon little clips of of music from different songs and everything like that. Kenku can only repeat sounds that they've heard, so every time he would cast a spell it would be based upon a song that somebody else used.
Andrew:That, that that could be very interesting. All right, so let's talk about. So what are some of the first level spells? Well, that should be in your spell.
Joe:Let's jump to it real quick. There's your magic missile again, I mean it is such a utilitarian perfect thing for for this, Burning hands is a very interesting. You put your hands together, you create a wave of fire 15 feet in front of you. Again, good for people getting too close, Right.
Andrew:And what else? Charm person Again a very good utility. Not necessarily, it's not a fighting spell necessarily, but it's a good utility. Utility spell. Feather fall they recommend.
Joe:Feather fall is a very interesting spell. When you're falling you can cast this and I think same number of people as your modifier oh, five falling creatures. Instead of falling the 50, 60 feet and hurting yourselves, you kind of just gently fall down like a feather would.
Andrew:That's very helpful if you, if you're in higher heights. Yeah, yes, like when we were in that flying castle.
Joe:Yeah, fortunately nobody fell, that was on your side.
Andrew:No, fortunately we're now in the current campaign. We're in the pit or we're near a pit. So, in case anybody falls it would be nice if somebody had feather fall, yeah, and Mage armor. Mage armor is another one they recommend.
Joe:Yeah, it's a little AC boost for you, you know, because wizards are not going to have shit for AC or head points.
Andrew:Yes. So that'll be. That'll be very helpful. Bye. Farse no. So races that are good for wizards. Farse no is a great one because you get a plus two to intelligence. And what's nice is you automatically know the minor illusion cantrip, so you automatically get that one. So you can pick other cantrips as well, so you don't have to use up one of your cantrips selections for minor illusion. You automatically get that as part of the farse noem.
Joe:The high elf you get your plus one to your intelligence and then you get a plus two to your decks to kind of build up your AC a little bit built in. Not to mention the high elf gets recovery of all of its spell slots on a short rest as opposed to a long rest.
Andrew:Yes, that is very helpful. Four hours instead of eight, yep, that can be very helpful. And also, the half elf gets a plus two to charisma, but they get a plus one to two others. So that's where you can put it to your intelligence and your constitution and bump those up. Plus you get two skill proficiencies, which is always always a helpful thing, and lastly some of the class features for wizard. Just one d six on the hit dice. So, as we like to say, wizards are squishy. They're not, they're not armor wearers, they're not, they're not going to have high HP. So you want to, you want to boost those up as as much as you can. No armor proficiency, weapon proficiencies, daggers, darts, slings, quarter staffs just some, just some light weapon very light weapon. Yeah, so there there, there's not a lot there there. They're really a, a spellcaster. That's. That's what they're meant to be and that, and that's really all there is to. again, without going into the lots and lots of detail that that pretty much covers the highlights of the wizard and and all the last six of 12 classes.
Joe:We did it.
Andrew:There's been a lot of information to to cover, so Joe is going on a two month hiatus for for youth sports.
Joe:Yes, I unfortunately am overbooked.
Andrew:Unfortunately. That's a good thing. Oh, what are you cooking, soccer?
Joe:Yes, yes, awesome. We're actually my friend and I are running the league this year, so we're in Tissa, so we're coaching. Two teams were running the league. So working up to this point has been quite harried and crazy, with everything going on, I'm sure. And now, going forward, it's, it's looking like it's going to get a little easier, but now I'm going to have to dedicate my usual recording night to actually practices.
Andrew:Yes, so we've got so. So what we have to look forward to in the future is once. Once Joe returns, we're going to, we're going to start every turn of Joe. That's right. We'll put a countdown clock and we're going to. We're going to do character creation. We're going to, we're going to start doing some gameplay. Yeah, in the meantime, we've got a bunch of interviews. We might we might do some one shots in between, with not necessarily character creation, but maybe just some some gameplay with a guest DM. But we've got interviews with with an author or psychiatrist, psychologist, who, who wrote a book about using D&D for therapy and and how to use D&D in the classroom as well. So we've got some interviews on that. We've got some interviews with other people who have been DMs players, talking a lot about their experiences as beginners and some suggestions they have for for you getting started. So we've got a lot of interesting things to talk about over the next two months while Joe is away, and then we'll get back to the, the gameplay and actually the game mechanics of creating a new character and playing that character.
Joe:Right, and then we'll do a quick run through one shot of me and Andrew running that character through a very base level introductory adventure to see how everything works mechanically, like he was saying.
Andrew:Yes, I think it'll be a lot of fun. We have to figure. There's so much we have to figure out. We have to figure what race it's going to be, what, what class is going to be there's.
Joe:I'm all for the dice roll baby.
Andrew:We'll randomize it.
Joe:We'll talk about it, but I think we just do it, do it all based upon the dice roll, and then we'll work out like the details. And then of course, we got all the class episodes coming up where we're going to do deep dives into individual classes and talk about that, and I think what we're going to do is so that we don't get too monotonous with that. We might interspace that with the rest of the things. So we're not doing there's another one.
Andrew:I don't think we're going to do 12 episodes in a row.
Joe:Yeah, that's, that's not going to happen.
Andrew:That way too much maybe, maybe once a month.
Joe:Yeah, something like a feature at or something.
Andrew:Because there's 12 classes. So 12 classes that's a whole year's worth of. So maybe do one a month and interspersed with with other things.
Joe:So guys got a lot of content coming up.
Andrew:I'm going to be stepping away for a little bit.
Joe:Looking forward to coming back in November when everything's all said and done with the soccer and I can dive back in. I don't know, did, did. Is Catherine still thinking about doing her?
Andrew:interview with my wife. I will interview my wife and we will. We'll talk about pop culture, dungeons and Dragons in pop culture, so that that'll be a fun, a fun one. We're both big, big lovers of all things nerdy, so we'll talk about how all that, how D&D kind of shows up in all those different places, so I'm really looking forward to that, from Buffy to Big Bang to community stranger things to community, everywhere it pops up everywhere. It'll be a lot of fun in music. It's in Star Trek, yeah, so it's there. There'll be a lot of fun to, a lot of fun to talk about there, so so thanks, everybody. Yes, thank you so much for listening. We look forward to talking to you next episode, and and and thank you again, peace and long life. We'll see you in two months, joe, absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you, my pleasure.
Joe:Take care.
