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Roll up with your twenty-sided dice and spell books, as "Legends, Loot and Lore" embarks on a spirited tour of Dungeons & Dragons' most memorable forays into television. Together with Catherine, a fixture in our podcasting party, we pay homage to the rasterized realms where D&D not only rolled initiative on screen but also cast a charm spell over viewers. From the demogorgon-fueled adventures in "Stranger Things" to the nostalgic trip to the "Freaks and Geeks" basement, we parse through how our beloved tabletop epic has crit-hit its way into the heart of pop culture, with a few unexpected digressions that are as delightful as they are insightful.
The dice gods have spoken, and we've got the definitive list from Inverse.com, but not without our own twist. Catherine and I don our wizard hats and conjure an analysis of television's most iconic D&D episodes, where we might not always see eye-to-eye with Inverse's rankings. We celebrate the power of role-playing to bring people together, laughing along with "The IT Crowd," reminiscing with "The Goldbergs," and even imagining how the Scooby Gang from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" would fare on a D&D campaign. It's an episode brimming with the kind of nostalgia and camaraderie that could only be inspired by countless nights around the gaming table.
As our quest nears its end, we share our personal picks for the episodes that have truly honored the spirit of D&D. We ponder how the characters from "Gravity Falls" would stack up in a campaign, chuckle at a Key & Peele sketch that marries hip-hop culture with monster-slaying, and even delve into the psyche of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" characters as potential D&D heroes. So, whether you're a dungeon master or a curious newcomer, join us for an episode that's as much a celebration of shared storytelling as it is a tribute to the rolling of the dice that binds us all in the fantastical world of Dungeons & Dragons.
Inverse.com - D&D TV Show Episodes Ranked
Screen Rant - Buffy Characters as D&D Players
Campaign Eddie Funko Pop
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01:13 - Dungeons and Dragons Episodes on TV
16:23 - D&D Episodes in TV Shows
35:18 - Tabletop Games in Comedy and TV
47:42 - D&D in Stranger Things and Voltron
01:05:55 - Freaks and Geeks and Community
01:23:38 - Ranking TV Episodes for D&D Fans
Welcome adventurers to another fun, exciting, just jam packed full of interesting tidbits of information. Today is a new episode of Legends, loot and Lore. We've got our Mountain Dew and our Funyuns and we're ready to talk all things television with our guest Catherine.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:Hello Catherine.
Speaker 2:Am I even a guest anymore? I'm always here.
Speaker 1:You're always here. Special guest star, I'm going to have to bump you up to recurring cast.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:When we were going to negotiate your contract.
Speaker 2:Like I paid for this. I didn't think there was any pay for this?
Speaker 1:Not at all. Yeah, not at all. So Catherine has been diligently watching episodes of television all about Dungeons and Dragons, so we can talk about that today. Before we dive into everything, I just want to first thank everyone who listens to the podcast. I look at all the analytics and see it's fascinating to see where everybody is from. So thank you for everybody out there, wherever you are, for listening to this wonderful little podcast of ours. It really is a labor of love. So thank you for that. The other thing we should talk about, because we've gotten a few episodes into season two now and big question is where is Joe? Who? Exactly? No, my co-host. Joe, joe, joe, oh, joe.
Speaker 2:You know Joe, I do know Joe, I know Joe really well, actually yes, you do. I do.
Speaker 1:So season two took on a new twist. Our good co-host and friend, joe, has gotten engaged. Yay, congratulations, joe and Christine. So he is busy, often in wedding planning land, so he is not joining us for season two. Maybe when things settle down he will be back to join us, but that is where Joe has gone off to. So we wish him well and hopefully this new side quest that he's on will be tremendously wonderful and happy for him. We couldn't be more excited for the two of them. So best of luck to you both. Now on to the fun stuff.
Speaker 2:Oh, is Joe's wedding not fun?
Speaker 1:Joe's wedding is not fun, oh, I see. Well, it hasn't taken place yet.
Speaker 2:Well no, and wedding planning, honestly would not want to do again.
Speaker 1:So no, yeah, did that. You did that once, yep, yep. Anyway, you were helpful, I was helpful, you were. I was just going to say I've done more than once.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, you had experience.
Speaker 1:That's right. Not my first rodeo, all right. So why don't you take our listeners through? So we're going to talk about what a website inverse has called the 13 best D&D episodes from TV, and they rank them from, I don't say worst to best, but I guess maybe, favorite to least, favorite to favorite. Maybe I don't know what their, what their ranking criteria was for these, just sheer opinion on which one they liked best.
Speaker 2:And I disagree with some of it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We definitely disagree with some with some of the ordering of these, but we will discuss that. So we're going to take these in order. We'll talk about the episodes themselves, some of the themes that these episodes touch upon and other things like that.
Speaker 2:So I'm assuming you'll link to the article in the show notes, because it does, for the most part, tell people where to watch these things.
Speaker 1:Yes, I will.
Speaker 2:I've got to say you mind if I jump in and say a little bit.
Speaker 1:Jump right in.
Speaker 2:So I had this idea a little while ago when I got, shall we say, roped into what was originally going to be DMing the new campaign and then became me becoming a rock no, and I was thinking about just how prevalent D&D actually has been in pop culture for a very long time. But it wasn't really until Stranger Things and not even the first season of Stranger Things really, the Eddie Munson Hellfire Club season of Stranger Things where it really blew up in the mainstream, which I find fascinating. I know Fable mentioned in our last episode that their D&D club at school went from I don't know something like five or six kids and then they got another 20 because of Stranger Things. And that's when I started thinking about how interesting it would be to look at how different TV shows had handled Dungeons Dragons and where I might have remembered it, like I did from an episode of Buffy, and where I'd kind of forgotten it and where maybe I never noticed it before. So I started Googling and found this article from inversecom where they rated what they considered the 13 best episodes of Dungeons Dragons that featured Dungeons Dragons, and these are mostly mainstreamy shows that feature it in some way, not shows that are specifically about it. So you're not going to have, like your Vox Machina or Critical Role or something like that, because those are obviously influenced by D&D. That's their whole deal.
Speaker 1:They are D&D.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. These are more of some comedies, some dramas, some cartoons that feature D&D in one way or another, so I enjoyed watching most of what was on this list. I think I really liked the Futurama episode, but I would have loved it if it were shorter.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that one I did not watch. I watched a good portion of these, but I did not watch them all.
Speaker 2:So some of them I'll speak to, yes, and some of them we'll both speak to Are you ready to dive in? Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1:So up first, which will be my first disagreement, number 13 is the Big Bang Theory's the Love Spell Potential episode, which is season six, episode 23.
Speaker 2:And by the way, there are two episodes on here where the episode numbers they have don't match what's on the article or what's on the streaming services. So, I will call those out when we get to them just so that people know what they're looking for.
Speaker 1:Fabulous.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:So this is one I watched as well. So what's your? I mean, let's get your take first.
Speaker 2:Okay, I mean I know there's a lot of controversy over Big Bang Theory. People either seem to love it or hate it. For me it's a big comfort show, like whenever I travel for work, if I'm in a hotel, when I fall asleep I'm I've got Big Bang Theory in the background because it's just kind of always there and it's stupid and I don't feel bad if I miss some of it. So I like Big Bang Theory. I enjoyed this episode. I thought it was fun to see you know somebody like Penny, who is clearly not into all of the for lack of a better term nerd things that Sheldon and Leonard are into, but play it anyway and to some extent enjoy herself. But I liked the way they used it to explore some of what was going on in Sheldon and Amy's relationship, because Love Spell has been put on their characters and Amy gets really upset and it kind of forces a conversation, which is great. I also really loved all of Walowitz's voices throughout the episode. He does a lot of a lot of impressions and it gave him an opportunity to really utilize those impressions, which was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Yes indeed.
Speaker 2:There was Nick Cage, Christopher Walken.
Speaker 1:Little Al Pacino in there. Yes, yes. He was I'll just. I got to jump in because these were his voice. His voice work is amazing. Yeah, his Nick Cage is great.
Speaker 2:It was fantastic, it was so good. I love how the last two words of everything were shouted yes, you always shout always shout the end of the sentence.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it was for me. You've talked about this on the podcast before how dungeons and dragons can be a vehicle for dealing with very complex issues in people's lives and addressing them in a way that is not necessarily so overwhelming as maybe sitting in therapy or things like that, like a traditional therapy session. So it's because you're playing as a character, so you're not necessarily yourself, but it is you because you embody the character. But we talked a lot about this with Ryan McLaughlin and Dr Cannell in the episode about D&D and therapy and therapeutic sessions and in school scenarios. So again, dealing with a very serious relationship issue between Sheldon and Amy I keep wanting to say Penny, sheldon and Amy, I do too, but yeah, but it also ties in the whole thing about how D&D is just a bunch of nerdy guys sitting around a table. So this is men and women coming around the table and finding their own way to enjoy it, and I think that's what it's about. It's what you bring to it. It's not really about D&D itself. It's sure it's a nerdy game, but it's a role-playing game. So whatever you put into it, I think you get out of it and I think the three women of the Big Bang Theory really started to grasp that in this episode. Any other thoughts?
Speaker 2:No, I think that's it for this one.
Speaker 1:That's that one. Yeah, number 12, south Park's Bored Girls.
Speaker 2:I loved this one.
Speaker 1:Was this? Is this correct when it says season 23, episode 7? Yes, excellent. So again another one I watched with you because it's South Park first and foremost. This was fun though, yeah, so talk about the episode.
Speaker 2:So basically the boys of South Park have a game club. I think they play more than just D&D, but D&D is part of it.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And it's the Dice Studs Gamer's Club.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is.
Speaker 2:And two girls decide that they want to join and, of course, are encouraged by the school because everything should be equal, and the boys have a really hard time with it because the girls are really good at all the games.
Speaker 1:Well, it's first of all, it's just the this is a boys club kind of thing. I was like, was it? They don't. They don't say it's a boys club, but they're like. But there are no girls. So like, now they're like. What do we do now that there are girls?
Speaker 2:here it's also the Dice Studs.
Speaker 1:What is the Dice Studs? So, okay, fair. So they are the Dice Studs. Now these two girls want to join. And it's so funny because, yeah, the girls just like they don't take over, but they're just so far better at the games.
Speaker 2:They read the instructions.
Speaker 1:They read the instructions.
Speaker 2:They watch YouTube tutorials. It's amazing.
Speaker 1:I love their, I love their painting of the miniatures. When they break out their cases of miniatures, they're like you paint your miniatures. They're like, oh yeah, we watch a new YouTube tutorial about it.
Speaker 2:And then eventually, cartman goes to. Cartman goes to. Is it the school board? Where he's fighting for segregation of the clubs, and so he ends up winning somehow. And there are boys clubs and girls clubs, and the girls club, when they enter, is straight up packs, like it's tables of gameplay. It's painting miniatures over here. It's like this wonderful fantasy world of gaming and the boys are just absolutely horrified. It's so much better than what they have Exactly, yeah, it does.
Speaker 1:It reminded me so much of packs You've got. You've got tables of different types of games. It's like here's your RPGs, Like here's like your other games, and they've got this elaborate club and tons of girls playing playing all these games.
Speaker 2:I like the one where it's like that's not even out yet.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we get screeners, oh yeah, because because they've got like a video, they do like a video show about reviewing games, a YouTube channel reviewing games. It's amazing.
Speaker 2:That was so good. The rest of the episode was typical South Park kind of insane satire. But the D&D and like the gaming portion was very, very funny.
Speaker 1:It really, it really was, it was, it was just so. It was just funny to see see all these these girls just again just reading the rule books, watching video tutorials. Yeah, they just like aced this role playing game, playing, playing D&D with the boys and it was just so funny to to say yeah, yeah, I really enjoyed that episode.
Speaker 2:I haven't watched South Park in a long time, but I liked that a lot.
Speaker 1:That was a really good episode. Yeah, onto Number 11, the Sarah Silverman program, which I have honestly never watched.
Speaker 2:Me either, and I like Sarah Silverman.
Speaker 1:I love Sarah Silverman.
Speaker 2:But I just had never seen this before.
Speaker 1:Yes, so this is an episode called Board of the Rings, season two, episode one. So what happens in this episode as far as D&D is concerned?
Speaker 2:So Sarah has a pair of next door neighbors, a gay couple named Brian and Steve, and I guess it is D&D day. On the calendar it says DDD day, which Brian interprets as Dungeons and Dragons. Day, but it actually meant day date, so Steve is all put out because they were supposed to go to the park and have a picnic and do all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 1:And Steve got all dressed up. He was so put out that he got all dressed up for this thing.
Speaker 2:And all the nerds are showing up to play D&D in their costumes with them. They're ready to go. So it's a show that ends in the D&D group going to try to save a clinic that's being blown up. So it's goofy and funny, but I don't think I don't even know if I would put it on this list. Honestly, I didn't think it was as compelling as some of the others.
Speaker 1:There are some funny parts to it. The one that jumps out at me is when Steve, the angry boyfriend, he's like do you even realize what time of day it is? That was so good and he rips this blanket off the window and it's like daytime again. He's like you've been playing all night long. You're like what? Yeah, they don't even realize it because they're just having so much fun. And I think that's one of the things about D&D it really is. You can really lose yourself in the game, and these guys do that quite dramatically by playing all night long, powered by. It looks like Tab and Funyuns in the episode still.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's what was 2003. So Wow, that was 2003. My goodness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, interesting, but yes, and they do save the clinic miraculously, of course, but Steve got shot by a crossbow right in the butt. That was fun. Obviously, I would probably leave that on here Again. I'd leave it in the double digits, but I'd keep that on here. Let's go to one of your favorite, not one of your favorite, your favorite show, yeah, of all time. Of all time. Number 10 on the list is Buffy. The Vampire Slayer, episode chosen. This is the series finale this is the series finale of Buffy, so a little late to the game To talk about D&D. But so what is your take on Buffy? Fan of fans.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is a very brief scene within a very fraught episode, so I actually like it for what it does. It's Giles and Dawn and Xander and why can't I think of his name right now?
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Andrew, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's his name.
Speaker 1:No, but you couldn't remember that name.
Speaker 2:Haven't we discussed the fact that I have a mental block toward characters and other people named Andrew? Cause I do, I can never remember other people named Andrew. It's really weird it is weird.
Speaker 1:I know we've had this conversation before, but Anyway.
Speaker 2:so it is Giles, xander, dawn, Andrew, playing on your sleeps because they cannot sleep because they're about to go battle the big bad evil and they don't know if they'll come out alive, and so it's a reprieve from their anxiety and it gives them something to do while they're not sleeping, because they're kind of the extra characters who don't have a lot of skin in the game. But it comes with the best line ever where Giles is playing a wounded dwarf with the mystical strength of a doily.
Speaker 1:And mystical strength of a doily, it does make me. You love that one I do?
Speaker 2:I mean? It's up there with Giles's best lines, although there are others like look at my mask, Isn't it pretty Americans? Oh, I'm sorry, it raises the dead Americans.
Speaker 1:Very nice.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean it's a very fun kind of reprieve in the middle of a very serious episode where, like, a lot was going on. So, it's fascinating that they even worked this in, honestly, because you have the very brief return of Angel to help out. You've got, you know, like all sorts of stuff happening. Spike becomes a true champion and all of the potential slayers become slayers, come into their slayer power and then they have to, like, fight the big bad. So it's kind of a fun couple of minutes in the middle of a very tense episode.
Speaker 1:Right. I think the one thing at this article point and that, which is a really good point, it's a nice callback to one of probably the inspirations for Buffy the Vampire Slayer, that probably a lot of people on the staff of that show have been players of Dungeons and Dragons. So it was a nice kind of just homage to the game that helped probably in some way shape or form get Buffy to be created. You know there's a lot of things in Buffy that feel very D&D-ish over the course of the show. So this was just a nice kind of short little wink and nod to the game and all that it had to contribute to the show of Buffy.
Speaker 2:I might have added this to the honorable mentions area, like they have a. I mean, I love it and, believe me, I'm always delighted to see Buffy listed in anything, because it is truly my favorite show and probably always will be. But this is a very short piece.
Speaker 1:Right, it's almost like blinking. You'll miss it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you're talking an hour long show, so that's like 42 minutes without the commercials and it's maybe like two minutes of it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Again, like you said, it's a nice nod, Probably an honorable mention, not necessarily number 10 on the list. Next up is number nine, Gravity Falls episode. Title Dungeons, Dungeons and More Dungeons. And this was from season two. This is episode 13. So this is one I did not watch. So tell me, tell me all you know about this Gravity Falls episode.
Speaker 2:This was actually a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Was it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So of course, dipper is a fan of Dungeons, dungeons and More Dungeons, which is a D&D, obviously.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Inspired game and he has. So they live with their one uncle, their one great uncle, and they have the other great uncle who kind of just came back on the scene, and this is an opportunity for Dipper to bond with him because, the other uncle has this weird mystical polyhedral die that actually takes them into the world of D&D, and then they have to play against all of the characters from the game to defeat them and come back into the real world and it's a lot of fun they. The quote they mentioned in here is really funny because Dipper's trying to get his great uncle and his is Mabel, his sister, I have no idea Other kid.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:This is a show that I kind of have dipped in and out of, but I never really watched, but she says this is like homework the game because there's so much math.
Speaker 1:There's a lot it is. They call them math rocks for a reason you gotta do a lot of math. Yeah, shout out, shout out to Steve, who's always complains about having to do all the math, but he never forgets to rage.
Speaker 2:No, he always rages Always rages the other quote that they call out in here. That is very funny.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Is only a game designed by nerds, would have charisma as a fantasy power.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:It was. It was a really cute episode. I enjoyed it. It was one of two. This one and the Voltron episode actually like took the characters into well actually no, I guess also Futurama, so three but really took them into the actual game and you see, like the characters that they're fighting against become real, and it is pretty cool actually. It was fun.
Speaker 1:That is cool. I mean, yeah, it makes it. I guess that's the the luxury you have being an animated series where you can actually transport your characters into the game. Yeah, but again brings up a very interesting point that we've mentioned this before. What happens is when people discuss sessions of D&D, it's never. Do you remember when my character did this? Right, when my character did that? It's like do you remember when we drew our swords and like we battled like the hobgoblins and shot them with our crossbows and you and I we had advantage on the one. We hit them from both sides. It's like you recall the action like, kind of like in a first person position. You don't think of it as my character did this and my character did that, it's I did this or we did that. So you get very drawn into the story and an animated show can really make that point that you really do get drawn into the story. It's almost like your LARPers for real world IRL. Hello, kat.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think this was the one.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:To where the other people were LARPing that you just reminded me of that Were people LARPing. The characters that were like oh, I don't want to play that game because I prefer they called it something else. It was like floorping or something.
Speaker 1:Floorping.
Speaker 2:There was a definition of floorping but it was LARPing. And they're all out there and like the cardboard outfits with like egg cartons taped to their chest Amazing. And at the end they talk about like do we use this to avoid?
Speaker 1:the realities of life.
Speaker 2:And like it was very funny.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that sounds like a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:I've got DeeDee over here. Give me one second.
Speaker 1:Yes, what are you doing? You want to come here, kat. I'm on the podcast. Come on, deedee, come on, come to mama.
Speaker 2:Come on, come on baby.
Speaker 1:No, you don't.
Speaker 2:You want to sit on that chair and keep trying to get my leg. You gotta come down. What are you doing, hi?
Speaker 1:All right, but don't be digging those claws into my leg All right next. All right, so let's yes.
Speaker 2:This is one with a wrong episode.
Speaker 1:This is one with a wrong episode. So number eight, number eight comes Teen Titans Go, episode called Riding the Dragon. So what is the actual season? Is it season three?
Speaker 2:It is season three, but on Max it was episode 51.
Speaker 1:Ah, so streaming this on, max, you'll see it as episode 51. The article labels it as episode 50. Yes, so another one I didn't get to watch, so talk to us about.
Speaker 2:Okay, this one was tough for me because I have literally never watched an episode of Teen Titans Go. So, I don't know who most of these people other than Cyclops and Robin are, but we'll just go with that. They're playing a game called Dragon's Fire, and it's Everyone but Robin and they basically just enjoy riding the dragon. You know they're all on the dragon, they're singing about riding the dragon, but then Robin shows up and he insists on following the rules.
Speaker 1:Joe. So Joe is our rulekeeper.
Speaker 2:Basically ruins everybody's good time.
Speaker 1:Joe does not do that, by the way. Joe does not ruin our good time by sticking to the rules. But yeah, so there's yeah, there are and we've talked about this the rule, of course, cool, you know, it's all about what's going to make a fun, enjoyable session for everybody, so it's not about adhering perfectly to all the rules. If something is, if you're your party, your characters want to do something kind of outside of the box, you know. You know, roll with it. If it's something they're going to enjoy doing and worth giving a try, let them do it. And I think that's a good point to learn from this is that you don't have to follow the rules strictly when you're playing D&D. It's a great guideline, it's a great basis, but you can always jump off from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's not like you're going to ruin the game if you don't Right absolutely. It was a cute little episode but yeah, I mean, it was difficult for me. Most of these I've seen at least an episode or two of before, so I had a feeling for who the characters were. This one. I had absolutely no idea, so a little more difficult.
Speaker 1:but how would you rank this? Would you put this at an eight, like how, how?
Speaker 2:Honestly, I would move. I would move Gravity Falls up a bit. I would definitely move Big Bang Theory up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all for sure.
Speaker 2:This. I could move down a little bit, maybe into the double digits, but I do get what they're saying with it. It was an important episode in terms of what you just talked about.
Speaker 1:Like, you don't always strictly have to follow the rules in order, to have a good time, exactly, but that's a good lesson to learn from that episode for sure.
Speaker 2:On the next one, I want to mention something too, after you talk about it.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Or when you introduce it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so episode number seven on the list from the IT crowd, which is a show that I very much like and enjoy. The episode is titled Jen. The Frado season four, episode one.
Speaker 2:So now the article is from last year and states that it's on Netflix, but it's no longer on Netflix, it's only available on Britbox. I bought this episode, but you could totally do a free trial of Britbox if you wanted to watch it, and I think this one's worth watching. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:I think the show is fun in general If you are if you are a what we do in the shadows TV show fan. Matt Berry, vaslo Cravensworth.
Speaker 2:And here I thought that was just a voice he put on for last night. Turns out that's his voice.
Speaker 1:Great, great to see him there. Chris O'Dowd is in this show, who's fantastic. So, anyway, so, so, anyway, so so Jen gets, gets a job as the with the entertainment manager. Yes, so she's. She's in charge of entertaining various clients or vendors that come into town. So anyone coming from out of town, she's got to, she's got to basically show them in the town and show them a good time.
Speaker 2:But everyone tries to talk her out of this job because it's not just showing them a good time, it's showing them a particularly sexist type of good time.
Speaker 1:Yes, so. So typically the people coming into town are men, and it's there they're. They're looking for a wild, raucous, debaucheryous time, and so when the the, the one scene, when the, when the three guys come in for the first time and Matt Berry's character introduces them to, to her, they think she's the entertainment, and he's like, no, she's the entertainment manager, and so she's. She's got to figure out how to how to entertain them, for I think they were in town for a week.
Speaker 2:Cause, it turns out the vagina monologues was not the appropriate place to take that?
Speaker 1:No, it was not, not at all. So eventually she sent so there, and there's a subplot that we'll talk about, but eventually she sends them down to Moss's Moss, moss, moss, moss, moss, moss, moss, moss, moss, moss, moss one more time. Whoo, she sends them down to Moss and he is playing a game, he's hosting a game of D&D, and so so again we have the. Well, this is the first time that we have the, the two cool people Right that are. They're too cool for D&D. Yeah, they're getting exposed to it and, surprise, surprise, they end up having a great time, grand old time, playing D&D. Really love it and had had just a tremendous time. So what else did you get from from this episode?
Speaker 2:So Chris O'Dowd's character, roy, has just gotten dumped and is devastated and moping and just kind of pathetic. He's photoshopped her out of every picture, which is hilarious because it's just him doing everything alone, riding a bicycle built for two by himself, on a teeter totter alone. It's great, it's really funny. But Moss has really built this game as a way for Roy to be able to get closure on that relationship and ends up being this kind of like emotionally touching point in time for all of these kind of alpha male obnoxious guys. So it's. I think they did a really nice job of of kind of building it up and then having these guys all kind of be so delighted with it as a game and as an activity that, like, they're so happy with her as the entertainment manager.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, yeah, it's. Again it goes back to the, the therapeutic benefits of of of Dungeons and Dragons, of role playing, tabletop, role playing games in general. Chris O'Dowd's character, roy yeah, he's not able to get closure from this, from this, the relationship breakup, and so Moss, moss's character, builds into the game the ability for him to to get closure in a similar manner to to what he'd experienced in real life and and really feel that kind of that, that sense of relief and and being able to move on. Because in the episode he's just, he's just moping around the office, he's just crying, he's terribly upset and broken up about this, this relationship ending and and really not getting to. You know, cause she never said goodbye to him and so now he got the chance to let all that emotion out and say goodbye here, here, this character in the story, say goodbye and and that translated into his personal life. So, again, tremendous benefits of of tabletop role playing games in in therapeutic situations. And this was, I think, in in in a in a comedy. It was really very um kind of poignant kind of poignant. It was very, it was a very touching, touching real moment. So for him, which I thought was great, oh, onto number six, this is a good one, oh, yes, I actually made Andrew watch this when he came home yesterday, because I enjoyed it so much so so worth it? I don't. I don't even remember this episode when it aired. So number six on the list. Another favorite show of mine, the Goldbergs, and the episode is called Dungeons and Dragons. Anyone In three, episode 20, lay out the story for us.
Speaker 2:So obviously, adam and his friends are nerds, and this is this is when Adam was really tiny too.
Speaker 1:So you're so young, oh my.
Speaker 2:God, yes, um. So this the the Adam piece of the storyline, because there's a separate um storyline that's going on about, um, his sister going to college, right, the fallout of the parents with that. But um, the Adam piece of it is talking about the hierarchy of gym class, right. Like how the losers always get picked last so it's always the nerdy kids who are, uh, not very athletic who are getting picked last. And so Adam and Dave, Kim and their other friends, you know, are lamenting how they're never going to get to be cool now while they're still in middle school. But when they get to high school, their brains will be the thing, and of course big tasty shows up out of nowhere to disabuse them of that idea, but gives Adam the idea to go to the coach and ask to be able to be a team captain so he can pick teams.
Speaker 1:Of course he gets carried away and little, little power went to his head, yeah, and picks all the athletes and leaves his friends in the dust. And he and he's, and he's got, he's got the, he's got the thought process, like well, because I'll be cool and through me you guys can become cool.
Speaker 2:But I'll have to be pretty mean to you for a while. Yeah. So that does that turns out terribly so of course the jocks destroy the other kids basketball, and the coach is so horrified by it that he says that Dave Kim can be the captain and he can choose the game the next time.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's the key part here. And what does he choose?
Speaker 2:D&D tournament module.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:So they sit down to play and Adam's trying to teach the jocks how to play D&D and it's going terribly.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:There's a couple of them wrestling over here. There's what is the one want to do? Oh yeah, he wants. He wants to get a girl.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:And of course it's Lord, big of tasty, to the rescue.
Speaker 1:Lord big of tasty.
Speaker 2:Because of course he's had a, he's had a character sheet ready to go in case he was ever invited.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And he kind of gets them into it and and ultimately the, the jocks, get really into D&D as well. So it's a super even matchup when they arrive at the tournament. But ultimately Adam throws it in a very nice callback to what'll happen if you touch it. Gelatine's cube, I touch the Jell-O.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:I touched the Jell-O.
Speaker 1:That was great. Loved that, loved that scene. It was very cute. So much Because it's well, because it's every character has died except for except for him and Dave Kim. So they're, they're the two characters remaining, and there's a gelatinous cube there that they're.
Speaker 2:And the whole thing had been trying to teach the jocks that the gelatinous cube is gonna kill you right you know, you can't just attack the gelatinous cube, you can't throw things at the gelatinous cube. Exactly so Ultimately it becomes this thing about like understanding who your friends really are and where your loyalty lies, and and doing that through the the kind of guys of Dungeons and Dragons yes, and then and I love the poor coach because he's like Guys, it's, it's, it's 6, 30.
Speaker 1:I, just, I, just, I just want my life back. There's the line about he had no idea that it was going to last four hours, but again this touches on the point and that that D&D really is an inclusive game and it's for anybody, it's not just for the nerds, you know, and it's even the most popular jocks in the school. Can can get something out of it and really have a good time you can get caught up in kind of the Joy of it, right absolutely most definitely that was. That was such a fun episode.
Speaker 2:It was a great episode. I didn't remember it either, but I thought it was amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was, it was really good it was, it was a lot of fun, it was just I, I mean, and I love just, I love Adam, he's so funny, he's just, yeah, he's just it's just because he feels, because he comes down to the point, so he, so he touches the Jello, the gelatinous cube, and and he realized that it was more important to To have his friends than to win, of course, which, which is, which is a great point. You know it's, it's. It's another great thing about D&D, it's about friendship. Yeah, you know it's about. It's about the party itself. You know, it's the, it's the old rule. You know you never split the party. Everybody stays together. That's what happens. When you split the party, bad things happen. So Adam, adam realizes this and sacrifices himself and his team and, and, and and a pizza party, because I think, I think it was a pizza party one piece of pizza per child one slice per child.
Speaker 2:Because Dave Kim was gonna eat all the pepperoni he's like I can eat all the pepperoni.
Speaker 1:Coach shouts one slice per child. Watch the episode. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:It's a really good episode. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Definitely now on to okay. So that's the big one.
Speaker 2:Which I think should be higher than number five.
Speaker 1:I mean really, really, the only reason this article was written was because of this show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it really is what got me thinking about exactly.
Speaker 1:So Number five, a a bizarre Ranking for for this it's really two episodes ranked together. The show is stranger things. There's the episode called the vanishing of will buyers, which was season one, episode one, when that, when it touches on Well, Mike has his whole game.
Speaker 2:He wrote the story, right, yeah and that's the whole demogorgon.
Speaker 1:I mean they even turned it into a box, yeah, of the game for people to play. Yeah, I mean that's how popular it became. And also the episode, chapter one, the hellfire club, which was season four, episode one, eddie Munson, the which is, which is, I think, one of everybody's favorite favorite characters other than the main actress. I think he was just, he was. He's beloved.
Speaker 2:Honestly, the breakout of D&D into mainstream culture in the 2020s, I believe.
Speaker 1:Most, most definitely. I mean, you see so much hellfire club merchandise. Yeah, if you go to the comic cons and and all those things, it's just everywhere. I'm looking thanks to funco pop of campaign, eddie with his awesome Campaign setup.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I love that funco.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that, by the way. Oh, you're welcome.
Speaker 2:We should link to that because it was a target exclusive, but it's pretty cool. It really is Campaign.
Speaker 1:Eddie, but anyway. So let's talk about Stranger things and a lot of what happens in Stranger Things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's Very intertwined with I mean, you're with D&D, your big bad in season four they refer to as Vecna right, because that's the campaign they're playing, right, and the big bad is Vecna, exactly it's, it's, it's so ingrained in it at season one is yeah. Mike wrote this whole story and then it turns out that's actually like happening, right the show itself is so, just like grounded in Dungeons and Dragons is why I don't know why it's not Higher on this list, because I'd say this is the most Dungeons and Dragons. These shows have been the most Dungeons and Dragons, these show that you could think of without it Specifically being about Dungeons and Dragons like a critical role or Vox Machina.
Speaker 1:This is probably this is probably the most popular show on the on the list In the the late 20s, early 2020s.
Speaker 2:Stranger Things is a sensation, it is it's hugely popular.
Speaker 1:I think his big bang theory was was was pretty popular, but I think Stranger Things is probably even more. I'd argue that it's more popular.
Speaker 2:Two different genres yeah right, you're looking at like silly sitcom and then, but again I'd say Stranger Things is so much more like Just intrinsically entwined with D&D. Right, oh, absolutely really can't have one without the other right, so that's why I think it should really be higher than number five on this list.
Speaker 1:I agree, I completely agree.
Speaker 2:I love Stranger Things, you know it's funny. I wasn't so much of an Eddie Stan in the beginning like I had to.
Speaker 1:Really I know Well see, and here's the thing to that I wanted to talk about a little bit, yes so obviously I have played D&D with you. Yes, you have.
Speaker 2:I DM'd Strahd. I am part of the current campaign, but it wasn't until this current campaign that I really like started to Love it. Mm-hmm and I don't know what the thing is. That kind of like clicked in me for this, but I I didn't love it the way I do now when I was watching Stranger Things, right. So it didn't mean as much to me. It didn't capture me in the way that it captured a lot of the kids who showed up for like fables D&D group at school.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But I understand now what the I mean. I was willing to watch all these episodes of TV to talk about yeah you were. I understand now why it's kind of captured so many people over the years.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:I just really, yeah, I mean I don't. I'm gonna keep repeating myself, I think if I, if I try to talk about it more, because I really just like they named the big bad after the character they were playing. D&d like it's it's that entwined right like that is such a big part of how these kids bond and such a big part of what makes Dustin feel accepted and his just absolute affection for Eddie and his willingness to be with him, even when they're kind of facing certain death.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It shows a lot of like how much you can bond with people playing D&D.
Speaker 1:Oh sure.
Speaker 2:You know, I think part of the reason that I'm enjoying our new campaign is that we're playing with Fable and James, and it's three people then you and Fable and James who. I feel very comfortable with.
Speaker 1:Okay, sure.
Speaker 2:And all of you who are listening to me do a stupid voice.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm sorry. Who's your character? San Rose Bumblebumble, that's right. Proprietor of the Bumblebumble B&B.
Speaker 2:Who is just recruiting everybody that she comes across Absolutely. But it's not that I haven't enjoyed it in the past. I've always enjoyed a one-shot Because I didn't want to immerse myself in In kind of the game itself. But I think I also have a lot more time right now.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I'm done with my MBA. I'm currently unemployed, so it doesn't feel Anybody looking for a marketing director out there. Yeah, I love marketing campaigns. Please hire me. I like to work. I work, so much work.
Speaker 1:That's right. I work all the work. So much work, so much work.
Speaker 2:There's a 90-day fiance reference in case anyone listening enjoys that. That is Zed. He works, so much work.
Speaker 1:Yes, anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's right. Stranger things, it should be higher on the list. That's the last thing I have to say.
Speaker 1:I agree. So two things that I took from, because I don't want to spoil it if you haven't seen Stranger Things yet, but for me it harkens back to the 80s, the satanic panic Of the 80s with Dungeons and Dragons, because you had a lot of that, because of what's happening in the episode, so Because I think this episode takes place in the 80s, if I recall correctly. Yeah, so this is back in the 80s, so you're right in, right back in the satanic panic. For those that don't remember, those days, everybody thought they were summoning demons and the devil and it was amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, that was the beginning of that Goldbergs episode where Beverly comes in and says that he can't play D&D Because she saw an episode of 2020, that talked about how bad it was, and then he pulls the okay, mama, I won't play the thing that brings me joy and she gives in. That's right. But what was it? You're a little devil, but you love Mama's Kisses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, something like that. So funny, so cute, yeah. But the other thing I love about this episode of Stranger Not this particular episode, but the season four of Stranger Things was Eddie's arc, because for a lot of it he is the Dungeon Master and so the Dungeon Master really runs the game, you know, yeah. But in the end he got to be the hero, which I thought was super cool, because it's the one kind of drawback to being the DM You're not actually a character in the story. So for all the DMing that he was doing, kind of running the story, and in the end he got to be the hero, which I thought was really cool. Yeah, so, alright, on to number four on the list. We're getting close. Yup Future Rama Bender's Game.
Speaker 2:So this says season five, but when I streamed it on Hulu, it came up as season six.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:They called these movies because they're all about an hour. It was episodes nine through twelve.
Speaker 1:Episodes nine through twelve of season six. According to Hulu Got it.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed this one. I thought it got a little long. It basically starts out with the kids and I don't know who these kids are. Again, I've watched Future Rama. I'm not clear on some of this.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So these kids are playing D&D. They are using what turns out to be this. It's one of two crystals that'll render Dark Matter useless, which is what they use to power their ships. Okay, but, the only thing you need to know is that they're using the anti-Dark Matter crystal as their twelve-sided die.
Speaker 1:Oh my.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they've written numbers on it. Oh my yeah. So that becomes kind of the undercurrent of the whole episode. Is Mom, who's in charge of all of the Dark Matter minds, is trying to keep it away so that it doesn't render the Dark Matter useless, because that's how she's made her fortune blah, blah blah. But Bender comes into this game of D&D and initially is like do I even have an imagination? Because it can't come up with anything like all he's doing is repeating what the other people are saying.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And finally it creates a character Titanius. Hold on, I have to look it up again. Titanius Anglesmith, fancy man of Cornwood.
Speaker 1:Alright, Titanius Anglesmith, Fancy man.
Speaker 2:So there's a whole Dark Matter mishap that causes them to go into the game. So this is another one of those immersed in the game.
Speaker 1:Got it.
Speaker 2:Which is very entertaining and it does. You know. People start learning things about themselves and they do spoof a lot of like. There are Star Wars references. There's a very heavy hobbit Lord of the Rings kind of influence.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Where Fry basically becomes Gollum. Yeah, Alright cool Because they have to destroy the anti-Dark Matter crystal.
Speaker 1:Right right, right right.
Speaker 2:You know it's the ring and yeah.
Speaker 1:Of course.
Speaker 2:So they all kind of learn something about themselves. Right Like Leela is very she's very violent and she's learning how to become less so, because you know she's so done with just like randomly killing innocent people and beings and whatever. Okay, so it's an interesting four episodes. I disagree that it should be this far up the list.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But I also feel like I just wasn't enjoying it that much.
Speaker 1:For the vast amount of content in it that is D&D related. Yeah, I see why they might have ranked it that high.
Speaker 2:But overall the quality of the yeah, I think they liked the call-outs to different, like other kind of similar universes.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Which I get. But yeah, it was a lot.
Speaker 1:Interesting, but I like your point that they learned something about themselves. Yeah, again, that's a common thread through a lot of these TV shows that people are learning things about themselves that they didn't realize it is. There's a tremendous amount of learning that can take place from D&D.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Oh, interesting. So I'm just I'm just reading the inverse article. So it says earlier in season two, the anthology episode, anthology of interest one actually actually featured D&D co creator Gary Guy Gax playing himself. The clip was included in the DVD release of Bender's Game as a tribute to Guy Gax, who died during its production, so so you can check that out as well. Onto number three, another favorite of yours, oh my gosh, yes, voltron, legendary defender. The episode is called Monsters and Mana. Season six, episode three Tell us all about Voltron.
Speaker 2:How long do you have? Keith was my boyfriend when I was in the fourth grade. Was he really he was?
Speaker 1:Which which.
Speaker 2:I mean it was the original with the with the lion.
Speaker 1:Which which line was he? He's the red line. Oh, the the head Charge line. Yes, oh, now I get it.
Speaker 2:Okay, so let me tell you why tiny Catherine loved Voltron so much.
Speaker 1:Please.
Speaker 2:Because you had Princess Elora, who was an equal to the rest of the team, and little Catherine loved seeing women who were equal to their male counterparts. I didn't even realize that that was what I was doing at the time, but I obviously was felt very strongly about being seen as an equal, even when I was like seven or eight. Interesting, yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:What you see, amazing, what you, what you pull out about yourself watching these.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Watching these shows.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean, even as a little kid, I just wanted to make sure that, like everybody knew I could do what they could do.
Speaker 1:Right, that's great, yeah, so. So a bunch of paladins playing D&D.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:So what happened? What happens in this episode?
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I just wanted to clarify, because there's no Lance. Oh, no wait, there is a Lance. There's no Sven in legendary defend defender. There's Shiro Got it. And that is the character who who? Every time he dies, he becomes a paladin again. It's the only character he'll play.
Speaker 1:That's all right. And again, again, I will. I will shout out to our player, Steve, in our Monday night campaigns, who is always a barbarian he is, he is, he is perfected. Every, every new campaign is a new barbarian. He's, he's. He's perfecting the barbarian class, which is great. He's almost to the point where he doesn't forget to rage, which is great, so that that's a plus.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we're good at that, so yeah, so there's nothing nothing wrong with with creating the same same class of character every every time you play. I just think it's fun. Go with what you like.
Speaker 2:I think part of what they're pointing out with this particular one is how the characters that you create in D&D can so much, can tell so much about how you feel about yourself.
Speaker 1:How so.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean so the, the Voltron Force, basically are Paladins, right.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:They're these like noble forces for good, and that's how he sees himself right, right. Chirro sees himself that way, and so he's always going to be a Paladin, because that's who he is Right, and I think that's kind of part of the episode is that like they all kind of fall back on the thing that they are.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know Elora is noble and she's kind, and you know Pidge and Chunk. I don't know if is he still Chunk, I see.
Speaker 1:Can you call him Chunk anymore?
Speaker 2:Call me Chunk if you want. I know Pidge is still Pidge.
Speaker 1:This is not. I don't know what's.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, if, if Spen's not Spen anymore, what is my life?
Speaker 1:Where did Spen go? Spen, spen, where are you?
Speaker 2:Who is Keith dating? In Voltron, legendary defender Keith is dating Elora now.
Speaker 1:Too much drama.
Speaker 2:Chirro's married.
Speaker 1:What has happened to Voltron? I haven't, I haven't watched it, so Chirro is married to Curtis.
Speaker 2:That's cute, huh.
Speaker 1:See the things, the things you learn, the more you know.
Speaker 2:Are you very happy with yourself now?
Speaker 1:That was great.
Speaker 2:Lance Chirro Pidge. What is his character's name?
Speaker 1:He doesn't have a name.
Speaker 2:No name. Yeah, I don't think he's Chunk anymore. That's sad for me, we'll get to fat Neil, okay Well, anyway, everybody really uses their character to show who they are Right.
Speaker 1:So, so I'll ask you a question.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So you are playing Zan Rose Bumblebumble, yeah, who is a monk, a rock-nome monk? Yes, so this was a character Joe and I created, yeah, in preparation for this campaign. So what would? What would? What character? What type of character? What type of character would most reflect who you are?
Speaker 2:That's a good question.
Speaker 1:Isn't it? I'm here to. I'm here to ask the good questions.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, let's see Thinking about what I would like the most.
Speaker 1:Yes, think about this.
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:Would you be a druid I?
Speaker 2:might be a druid. My eye was drawn to druid. I might also be an elf.
Speaker 1:One elf is a race, druid is a class.
Speaker 2:Oh, I don't know the difference between those things.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Should I listen to your podcast?
Speaker 1:You might want to go back a couple episodes. We touch on this.
Speaker 2:Okay yeah, probably a druid, maybe a rogue.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You see yourself as a rogue Interesting.
Speaker 2:No see, I don't see myself as a rogue.
Speaker 1:I'd like to see myself as a rogue You'd like to see, I think that's part of it too. Right.
Speaker 2:It's how you want to see yourself.
Speaker 1:How you want to see yourself sure.
Speaker 2:So when I was a kid, in addition to Voltron, I was very into He-Man, She-Ra, GI Joe, and I had created my own GI Joe character. Nice and her code name was the cat, because she was so stealthy.
Speaker 1:Clever.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I like that. Also, it's my name, did she did her outfit have little ears.
Speaker 2:This is not Batman.
Speaker 1:Catwoman. No, just the cat, the cat, the cat.
Speaker 2:That's her code name. The cat yeah Because she's so stealthy.
Speaker 1:Got, it Got it.
Speaker 2:So I'm saying a rogue stealthy. Okay, I feel like that could be a good fit as well.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, dee, dee's back.
Speaker 1:Hi Dee Dee, Hi Peanut, Are you coming up? You want to jump up here she can't decide what she wants to do. Come on Come on Dee Dee.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's a good girl.
Speaker 1:Dee Dee has entered the chat.
Speaker 2:All right, all right, should we keep going?
Speaker 1:Yes, let's keep going.
Speaker 2:So also when we're done with these. I have one other thing I want to talk about, because I found an awesome article about creating um playable Buffy, the Vampire Slayer's and Sittler characters in Dungeons Dragons oh really yeah, ooh, that could be fun. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:We could replay Curse of Strahd with Buffy the Vampire Slayer characters. Okay, so let's move on, because we've only got two left and then at least one honorable mention. This is an episode I absolutely loved. Freaks and Geeks. This is number two on the list. Freaks and Geeks episode is called Discos and Dragons and it's season one episode. Well, I guess there was only one season of Freaks and Geeks.
Speaker 2:This is both the season and series finale.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this was it so technically episode 18, but the last episode, so give us the synopsis.
Speaker 2:So basically you've got all the kids who do AV, who are kind of nerdy and want to be cool and play Dungeons and Dragons, and then you have Daniel, who is played by James Franco, who is I don't want to say cool, but like he's a stoner and he's very aloof and he tries to pull the fire alarm during a final that he can't cheat on, so he doesn't want to fail right and gets caught and his punishment is to spend the rest of the year with the AV club and ultimately they end up inviting him to their game of D&D, which for some reason he attends, even though he's very confused by the whole thing. Right, and he ultimately becomes Carlos the dwarf.
Speaker 1:I just love that.
Speaker 2:Carlos.
Speaker 1:Well, what was the other, oh well? Well, we'll get to it, but you're thinking advanced D&D. When he makes, he makes a lot. He's like I'm not very creative with names Carlos the dwarf.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:So anyway.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it starts out with Daniel being real reticent about playing. Yes, he's not sure why he's there, he's not sure why this is cool, and by the end he's like, so into it. So it's another one of those with the theme of like oh, it kind of brings people together, right? Because he immediately wants to play again tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So he's like, yeah, he's like meet again tomorrow. And a couple of things that my takeaways from the episode. First of all one, just getting Jason getting to see Jason Siegel dancing disco, so yeah. And for the other plotline to this episode, amazing Hammond was at Lizzie Kaplan as the disco duo. Fantastic, absolutely fantastic. But again, you know, it's because the one character you know he thinks he's like he had himself a girlfriend and he thinks he's like too cool to play D&D now. But then when James Franco's character agrees to play, then he's like, oh, maybe it is cool to play D&D. So he goes back and agrees to join them. So it was like it was a whole big thing. But again, it's just the whole notion that D&D is seen as a nerdy game. But it really isn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyone can get into it.
Speaker 1:Anyone can get into it.
Speaker 2:They give it the chance.
Speaker 1:And the one thing that I find really interesting. I want to bring it up. Well you're doing that.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to mention that. John Francis Daly, who is one of the characters, Sam, oh, you were going to talk about this.
Speaker 1:This is what I was looking at. Yes, so he's one of the co-directors of Honor Among Thieves the. D&d movie. Correct, yes, it all comes full circle. Yeah, so, yeah, so John Francis Daly was one of the creators of the Dungeons Dragons movie. Yeah, Absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to see how long ago this was made, because everyone was so young. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:Seth Rogen.
Speaker 2:James Franco, jason, why can't I think it was the last name, all of a sudden, jason Siegel. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I think this was 2000 or 2002. Oh God man, oh God painful.
Speaker 2:Okay, Well.
Speaker 1:I was pretty young back then too, I'm going to look it up.
Speaker 2:We were all pretty young back then.
Speaker 1:Let's see when was Freaks and Geeks was 1999 to 2000. Yeah, I thought it was early, right around then. So yeah, they were all so young, martin Star.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, he was so little.
Speaker 1:Oh man, it's incredible. Yeah, now they're all grown up making D&D movies of their own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, love the full circle on that, because I guess he stopped acting and became a director.
Speaker 1:John.
Speaker 2:Francis Daly and yeah.
Speaker 1:Very cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because Honor Among Thieves is a really fun movie. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:I mean, we don't have to get into that at this point, no, but but yeah, I dug Honor Among Thieves for many reasons. So yeah, yeah, it's just a cool kind of callback to Freaks and Geeks.
Speaker 2:Judd Apatow, who was one of the creators of the show, yeah, you don't say it has, like every actor that Apatow works with all the time.
Speaker 1:My name, I know All right. 23, 24 years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, number one. Number one, number one. This is there's in this. In this listing they only list one episode of the show, but there's really two episodes of this show that deal with D&D, but the show is community. Yeah, six seasons in a movie. Six seasons in a movie Six seasons in a movie. Still waiting on that.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, then there was COVID.
Speaker 1:Then there was COVID, but anyway this one. This episode is called Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. The other episode is called Advanced Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. The one we're going to talk about here for the most part is season two, episode 14.
Speaker 2:But the other one, is season five, episode 10.
Speaker 1:Season five, episode 10, for Advanced, advanced Dungeons and Dragons Now this actually go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I think we were going to say the same thing.
Speaker 1:No, no, you first.
Speaker 2:So what I was going to say is this is a hard one to get to. You have to buy it because, it's been removed from the streaming services because Ken Zhang's character, Professor Chang, is dressed as a dark elf.
Speaker 1:A drow.
Speaker 2:And so it looks like he's in blackface.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Shirley actually calls it out. She says are we going to address this hate crime?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But they've taken apparently a few episodes of 30 Rockdown for the same reason, so you can still get to it. You just have to purchase it and, honestly, it's worth watching, right. It's such a great episode of TV.
Speaker 1:I just want to mention I'll mention this at the beginning because there is a trigger warning I just this episode actually does touch on a very serious subject, yes, that of someone unaliving themselves. So it really it's interesting for a comedy show who, I guess, touches on some serious subjects. This is a pretty serious subject to deal with, so there's a character by the name of Neil who ends up getting dubbed Fat Neil Right.
Speaker 2:Because he was standing next to the other. Neil, he's not really skinny.
Speaker 1:He's bald and black, but Jeff Winger doesn't like it.
Speaker 2:He doesn't see things from that lens.
Speaker 1:He doesn't see things from that lens. So Fat Neil.
Speaker 2:But Fat Neil that.
Speaker 1:Neil is struggling with mental health issues and is really quite depressed, to the point of considering taking his life.
Speaker 2:Well, so Jeff Winger befriends Neil and starts talking to him about Dungeons and Dragons because it's what Neil loves, right, and he realizes things have really gotten to a bad point when Neil is in a very serious love and he realizes things have really gotten to a bad point when Neil gives him all of his D&D books because he won't need them anymore.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that is when Jeff convenes the study group.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And Abed puts together a game of D&D for all of them to play.
Speaker 1:Correct.
Speaker 2:But while they do accidentally include Chang, they very intentionally exclude Pierce, because he is also known as Pierce the Dickish. Yes, and they don't want him making things worse, but of course Pierce is always going to make things worse.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, he does, and it only exacerbates things by then excluding him. He makes things even more bad. Yeah, then if he was just there from the get-go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because then he sets out to destroy them.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But that does also lead to the best part of the episode for me. I pity Pierce.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Everybody uses their action to pity Pierce.
Speaker 1:That's correct.
Speaker 2:Naked 67-year-old man in the stars. He will die of exposure in 13 turns. I wait 14 turns.
Speaker 1:Wait 14 turns. It's a great, it really is a great episode. Again, they deal with a very difficult issue in kind of a lighthearted way, but it really just shows you just how much that party means to people.
Speaker 2:Yes, I also loved that it gave an opportunity to show just how kind Neil as a character is, because he never immediately when Pierce starts being an ass, neil Jeff wants to fight back right. He wants 14 turns because he's going to wait for Pierce to die of exposure and Neil gives Pierce his cloak and then Pierce steals his sword and then Pierce helps his sword.
Speaker 1:Pierce defiles. Pierce defiles Does horrible, horrible things to that sword.
Speaker 2:Rub it on my balls and throw it off a cliff. Yes, that was one of the worst. I mean, it's such a funny episode.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:And it's so well executed, like when they kill off Chang's character and he hands in his character sheet and then they show the character just disappear as he walks away. Right, it's all so silly, but again, as you said, it's handling this very kind of deep, deep topic in a more lighthearted way and they're all trying to be so protective of Neil.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And Pierce is just so butt hurt and feeling excluded and oh, you're stealing my friends that it just devolves into chaos.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that's one of the things they said in this article. They said it says the episode never drags viewers down with hyper specifics. Nobody rolls for initiative, yet it harnesses the unbridled chaos that all tables devolve into.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like correct. There's just a lot of, and I thought they did that part really effectively in the second D&D episode where everybody is just shouting their actions over each other Right, Right right. I thought that was a kind of fun part of the second one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, correct. So yeah, in many of these episodes the true mechanics of the game do not are not displayed. There's with all the dice rolling and things like that. They do a nice job of including D&D, but they speed up the actual kind of gameplay by taking some shortcuts. So you have to kind of suspend disbelief. If you're a D&D purist, you're not going to see a real game of D&D being played. But yeah, I think they address a really serious subject in a good way, because you and Neil gets to become the hero of the story.
Speaker 2:Right, and the thing is, neil becomes the hero of the story because of Neil's innate kindness. Right, because.
Speaker 1:Yeah, his character never changes.
Speaker 2:Right, well, and it's a character he's played forever.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:His character is strong and true and I think has a lot of the and we've talked about this a bunch has a lot of the same characteristics that Neil has as a person. He is kind, he is put upon, people are mean to him and he remains kind.
Speaker 1:He remains kind through all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which was good.
Speaker 2:It also shows you a different side to the study group, who are innately kind of selfish and obnoxious.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:In many cases unlikeable.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:They call. They call Abed, the undiagnosable.
Speaker 1:What was Annie's character? Something the well endowed.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, yes, because she ends up playing him in both campaigns. He keeps coming back.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Hold on.
Speaker 1:But I love how Annie, just Annie, just Hector, hector, hector the well endowed.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:She describes the scene with the elf maiden.
Speaker 2:The elf maiden.
Speaker 1:I mean they just they play music over it, so you don't actually hear her.
Speaker 2:But you can so read her lips.
Speaker 1:You can totally read her lips. Well worth the scene watching it. Very funny. But again, yeah, so there's also advanced, advanced Dungeons Dragons Again touches on a somewhat serious subject yes, it's Professor Hickey. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So he finds out that he wasn't invited to his grandson's third birthday party. He's very hurt by being excluded by his son, whose name is Hank Hank Hickey. Maybe that's why he's excluding him.
Speaker 1:He named him.
Speaker 2:Hank Hickey, david Cross.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So they find out that Hank enjoys playing D&D. So of course they think, well, we fixed the whole situation with Neil.
Speaker 1:They solved one problem with D&D. And they do it again.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. They gather to play, and this time the Dean is included and ends up yeah, ends up being Jeff's character's son, joseph Gordon.
Speaker 1:Die hard.
Speaker 2:Joseph Gordon die hard and is just an absolute nightmare because he is so in love with Jeff.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And he ends up. He ends up unaliving himself on a sword because he insists on hugging his father who is holding his sword in front of him, right, but it's another one where it turns out that Professor Hickey and his son actually can get along better when they're playing D&D, because they can take out a lot of the frustrations they have with each other through the game.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It's another very funny episode. I like when Shirley's character dies and she just picks up her person leaves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now that episode you can still watch on for free, yeah, on Netflix. But yeah, the other one you have to purchase.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:I think was it on Amazon as well.
Speaker 2:No, they say Netflix and Hulu. Netflix and Hulu.
Speaker 1:I did not check Hulu.
Speaker 2:Let me do that real quick, because I want to make sure we're telling people the right thing.
Speaker 1:So that covers the top 13. Yes, so would you. I would definitely put community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, community is also on Hulu.
Speaker 1:Excellent, I would definitely put community is number one.
Speaker 2:I think community is number one.
Speaker 1:I mean Stranger Things. I think should be like a special award.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean Stranger Things. I think really brought D&D back into the mainstream Right.
Speaker 1:That's like a lifetime achievement award yeah really.
Speaker 2:Yes, I would leave Advanced Dungeons and Dragons at number one. It's just really funny. You know, I think the only ones, and I talked about it a little. I think the only ones that I would change around. I'm not sold on Futurama being so high on the list. I do think the Voltron Legendary Defender episode and I didn't talk about it so much because I was hung up on names in the original Voltron series but I do think it was quite good in that it made the game immersive and it did show a lot of that. Like you create the character for who you are.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Would I put it at number three? I don't know, but would I put Freaks and Geeks at number two? Probably not. Freaks and Geeks is a great episode, but it's not the D&D part of it. Again, it's not a.
Speaker 1:Goldbergs episode Goldbergs was really funny. Goldbergs was great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd move Goldbergs up a bit. Yeah, I mean, I do think I kind of feel like Dungeons and Dungeons and Dungeons and more Dungeons, or whatever it was called.
Speaker 1:The Gravity Falls episode Dungeons and more Dungeons should be higher. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was very good.
Speaker 1:But, all that being said, for our opinions on where everything ranks, this is still a pretty solid list of TV shows worth watching. If you're a D&D fan, you may become a fan of some of these shows, if you're not already. Like I said, it crowd yeah very funny. Big fan of that one Community wholeheartedly.
Speaker 2:Oh man yes.
Speaker 1:Wholeheartedly love that show, so there's a lot of good ones on here that I think are worth watching. It's funny Inverse mentions. There's a key and peel sketch called when hip hop and D&D collide. Where did you find that one? Was it on YouTube? It was on YouTube. It was on YouTube. So typical key and peel, if you're familiar with them, very, very funny. Jordan Peele is just hysterical as Kanye the giant, so don't let me check it out.
Speaker 2:He wants his Alize. Don't you want some elven meat? No, I want Alize. And then he gets everybody else on his side. Oh yeah, Everybody's on his side. It's three minutes long.
Speaker 1:It's for short sketch but very funny. But again, great honorable mention. We'd probably throw Buffy in there as well, just for the sheer lack of content that it was. It was just like I said. I called it a blink and you miss it. Moment in the series finale.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, do we want to talk about this list of Buffy characters that you could create, or at least some of them?
Speaker 1:Let's do it. We got time.
Speaker 2:All right. So here's the second point. It's called Buffy the Vampire Slayer 10 characters you can play in Dungeons and Dragons and how to build them. Would you like to choose a character? I mean, I can tell you, the first one they put up there is Mayor Wilkins, which, unless you're a real Buffy fan, you're not going to know who that is.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Xander.
Speaker 1:Who would I pick?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I can give you the list and then, if you want to pick somebody, I'll tell you what they have to say.
Speaker 1:Like I knew, I know, I know which, which two I would probably pick. It would either be Xander or Oz.
Speaker 2:I don't think they have Oz in here.
Speaker 1:Okay, then I go Xander.
Speaker 2:Okay, let me just check.
Speaker 1:I patch Xander.
Speaker 2:It is Well, the photo is original styles, okay, but okay. So Xander, they say, is an eloquence barred 20. I don't know what any of that means.
Speaker 1:A level 20 bar I know what a barred is. Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay. So here's what it says.
Speaker 1:Yeah, read it.
Speaker 2:Despite Xander being the heart of the Scooby Gang, he isn't all that great at combat. What he does excel at is convincing even the most psychotic of people to put down their arms and talk. This makes Xander a shoe in for eloquence barred, as all of their class features are geared toward talking well. It's even been said that his superpower is motivating his friends, so a good feat to take for him is inspiring leader which grants temporary HP to people in the party. Expertise would have to be put toward persuasion and perception, as Xander is excellent at those qualities.
Speaker 1:I get that.
Speaker 2:That's pretty interesting. Yeah, anybody else you're interested in hearing about?
Speaker 1:They have Giles on the list.
Speaker 2:They sure do. What is what is so?
Speaker 1:they have him as two different things.
Speaker 2:Cleric Eldritch, night fighter. Oh, okay, and a hexblade warlock.
Speaker 1:Ah, hexblade warlock, I could see that.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:So we've got Giles' Buffy's Watcher, and he is arguably the most experienced and wise of Buffy's original group. He's already an accomplished fighter, but what makes Giles stand apart from his wards is that he also incorporates magic into his fighting after his dealings with the Devon Coven. While he's no wizard, he's a master at using magic to an efficient degree. Giles represents his pact with the Devon Coven and the Eldritch night fighter perfectly represents Giles' intelligence and magic casting Skill. Expert is a feat that they should take to represent Giles' impressive career. Expertise is best put toward perception being a watcher and all.
Speaker 1:Very nice, that's pretty clever.
Speaker 2:I do find it interesting that they make both faith and Buffy um. Faith and Buffy are both totem barbarians.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Well, I mean because it's. They got supernatural. I don't want to say supernatural strength or kind of, but so so I could see that. I could see. I could see a barbarian. I might multi-class them as like a barbarian. Maybe they go totem barbarian.
Speaker 2:Battle master fighter.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:I want to see if they did the same thing for faith, champion fighter for faith. Um, and I'll just run through what they say for the others Mayor Wilkins, who is the big bad. I don't remember which season he's the big bad in the season Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, it's one of the high school ones, because he tries to blow up the Right yeah. Anyway, they say Celestial Warlock and Divine Soul Sorcerer.
Speaker 1:Ooh, talked about Xander.
Speaker 2:Talked about Giles. Talked about Faith. Cordelia Mm-hmm. Divine Soul, sorcerer and.
Speaker 1:Divination Wizard.
Speaker 2:So this has got to be Angel Cordelia, not Buffy Cordelia Right, because she starts to have visions after Doyle dies in the first season and she's not going to die in the second season. So she's going to die in the first season and then Angel dies in the first season of Angel. So that's what they're going on.
Speaker 1:Makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Cordelia is the resident oracle of the gang and most of her help in the series is thanks to her visions.
Speaker 1:So they're definitely talking Angel, not Buffy.
Speaker 2:Right Anya and Archfey Warlock.
Speaker 1:Ooh, I like that.
Speaker 2:I mean she's a former vengeance demon. So it makes sense, angel they have as a kensei monk.
Speaker 1:Fascinating.
Speaker 2:He happens to be a master martial artist. He's said to be incredibly skilled in the art of weaponry. As for the race, he should be damp here.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:The rest of their vampire kit are all strangely fitting with the abilities of the monk class, such as Endurance, superhuman Speed and Long Life. A good feat for Angel would be mobile, further, making him hard to hit in battle. Interesting.
Speaker 1:Okay, I can see all that.
Speaker 2:Spike they have as a drunken master and a mastermind rogue.
Speaker 1:Nice, I like that, I like that combo.
Speaker 2:Okay. So this says Spike and Angel mostly have the same reasoning for their vampire traits, monk class and Dompere race. However, the difference is in their aptitude. Spike is a more impassioned and intellectual fighter who enjoys being in the fray and annoying his opponents into making mistakes. Drunken master with a dash of mastermind rogue fits Spike to a T. Drunken master involves a lot of unorthodox movements to avoid and deal damage. Mastermind rogue's master of tactics feature allows the player to use the help action in combat as a bonus. Action and cunning action shows his versatility. Expertise would be an insight. As he has said to Buffy, his greatest asset in combat was the ability to read his opponents.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Willow is a divine soul, sorcerer, evocation wizard we talked about.
Speaker 1:Buffy, and that's it. Cool, that was interesting, that's very interesting.
Speaker 2:They have a ton of these lists. The next one is 10 DC superheroes you can build in Dungeons, dragons, that's cool. Yeah, they're interesting. It's kind of fun. Obviously, I was super excited Harry Potter, the Dungeons, dragons, alignment of 10 main characters, so they've got a bunch of these, which is interesting.
Speaker 1:We'll definitely link to the Buffy article in the show notes.
Speaker 2:It's all on screen rant. So if you just keep scrolling after the Buffy article, it goes into all the other.
Speaker 1:It goes into all that cool, all right, excellent. Well, that covers the top 13 from this article. Again, we're going to post this on social media and everything. I would love to hear other people's comments as to other TV episodes and things that you've seen out there that mentioned D&D.
Speaker 2:I've got all the time in the world to watch things too, so if you want to recommend episodes for the time being, I'd love to watch them.
Speaker 1:You would. I would too Awesome. So thank you everyone for joining us. Once again, thank you to all of our listeners. I am so grateful to all of you for listening and giving this podcast a chance. Please share this podcast with your friends. You can help support the podcast as well by going to legendslootandloresupercastcom. Help us out in any way, shape or form. That would be greatly appreciated. Supercast is another platform, like Patreon, specifically for podcasters. So check us out there. Check out our Discord server. We've got all sorts of things going on. So keep on listening, keep on sharing the show and we'll see you again next week. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2:Bye.
